[ExI] Luciferian Murder?
atymes at gmail.com
Fri Dec 10 23:25:11 UTC 2021
Even "kill" implies intent. Can you think of a term that makes it clear
that basically all such cases are done in complete ignorance?
As to Canonizer - it's a similar problem, and similar to the one I have
with most interpretations of Christianity (where Lucifer comes from). You
act as if the points of view ("camps") on your site are the only ones to
consider. (Yes, anyone can make another camp, but this takes a lot more
work to do well and thus is usually not worth doing.) Thus, on many
(possibly most) issues, debates on your site start with false dichotomies -
and there does not seem to be much if any outreach or research to try to
find points of view that someone on your site is not already strongly
You have demonstrated that you're just not interested in doing that sort of
work: you would much rather debate and defend points of view than actively
try to discover what, if anything, you're missing in any given case.
Perhaps you might respond that you are interested in this, then I or
someone else would call BS, rather than commence research you'll just
defend what you've done so far, and it'll be an aggravating waste of time -
so I'd rather just not engage in that.
On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 5:53 PM Brent Allsop <brent.allsop at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, everyone, for all the helpful comments. Especially thanks Adrean,
> your examples which are especially helpful. True, I hadn't fully
> considered the definition of murder, and how intent is normally included.
> Other's have balked at using the 'murder' term for similar reasons which
> I've been struggling to understand. But these examples of yours enabled me
> to clearly understand the problem.
> Would it fix the problem if I do a global replace of murder with kill or
> killer? Seems to me that would fix things. I want to focus on the acts,
> and the results of such, whether done in ignorance or with intent or not.
> Also, I apologize for so far being unable to understand the problems you
> have with Canonizer. Would it help for me to ask you to not give up on me,
> and give me another chance? As I really want to understand.
> I guess I'm mostly just asking if I am the only one that constantly thinks
> about this type of "luciferian killing"? I am constantly asking myself if
> the actions I plan to do today will help, save more people, or not help,
> killing more people in a luciferan way by delaying the singularity?
> Does anyone else besides me ever think like this?
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:04 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> I have no desire to engage in your Web site (do not bother trying to
>> convince me otherwise: you are unable to address my reasons for not wanting
>> to do so, as you have demonstrated that you will not understand them even
>> if I explain them again), but I can point out a flaw in your reasoning: you
>> assume intent.
>> Most - basically all - behavior that delays resurrection capability is
>> done out of ignorance: the person is unaware of the concept of
>> resurrection, at least in any non-supernatural, potentially-non-fictional
>> Most - basically all - of said behavior that is not done out of
>> ignorance, is done out of disbelief: the person is aware that some people
>> believe it is theoretically possible but personally believes those people
>> are mistaken, that it is not theoretically possible and thus that there are
>> no moral consequences for delaying what can never happen anyway.
>> There is either extremely little, quite possibly literally no, behavior
>> that delays resurrection that is performed with the intent of delaying
>> resurrection. "Manslaughter" would be a more accurate term than "murder".
>> On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:56 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> Fellow transhumanists,
>>> We’re seek to build and track consensus around a definition of evil in a
>>> camp we’re newly calling “Liciferian Murder
>>> <https://canonizer.com/topic/114-Evil/3-Luciferian-Murder>”. If anyone
>>> agrees that this as a good example of evil, we would love your support.
>>> And if not, we’d love to hear why, possibly in a competing camp.
>>> Already getting the typical blow back of polarizing bleating and
>>> tweeting from some fundamentalists, but as usual, nobody yet willing to
>>> canonize a competing POV which would enable movement towards moral
>>> extropy-chat mailing list
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>> extropy-chat mailing list
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
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