[ExI] [Extropolis] Luciferian Murder?

[William Flynn Wallace]

Somebody stole your girlfriend.  Are you going to spend the rest of your
life trying to get even with that person?  Why cause yourself all that
grief?  So you find him and punch him out.  Did that satisfy you in the
long run?  I think that's adolescent behavior.  Your former girlfriend now
thinks that it was her lucky day when she left you.  Is that OK with you?
Forgiveness has to be permanent - for your sake.  Some don't like it
because they think that it resets everything to zero.  Nope.  Those
doctors, now certainly dead, still were worthy of revilement from me after
I forgave them.  But it was a cold thing:  I didn't burn any calories
hating them.   bill w

On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 11:44 AM Brent Allsop <brent.allsop at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Thanks for those great thoughts, William.  I didn't know that
> about your parents.  Is that story written up, somewhere?
>
> I do think forgiveness is great, but I consider it only temporary.  For me
> it's all about a full restitution, with interest, to achieve perfect
> justice.  All vengeance does is make more restitution work necessary before
> perfect justice can be achieved.  I have faith that we are heading in that
> direction and that some day we will get there.  Most people will never give
> up till we do get there.  That's what enables me to accept forgiveness, at
> least temporarily.  One might considered this way of acting as selfish,
> because the people that give today, will be the inheritors in the end, as
> in the first shall be last, and visa versa.
>
> Always forgive, never forget.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 10:09 AM William Flynn Wallace <
> foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I taught courses in Learning for over 30 years and I can testify that
>> punishment, of the positive kind ( as opposed to the negative kind, where a
>> response results in the withdrawal of something good, like taking a toy
>> away) has so many unfortunate side effects, often worse than the behavior
>> being punished, that I would never recommend it in child raising unless the
>> behavior being punished is actually dangerous to the person or to others.
>>
>> I would love to have vengeance against the doctors that killed both my
>> parents, but I could not.  You have to have very deep pockets to sue a
>> medical person, and of course I didn't.  So I have to forgive them to get
>> rid of the depressions and grudges I held.  I think forgiving shows moral
>> superiority.
>>
>> Putting a person in prison is a case that reinforces that notion.  The
>> only positive thing it does is to keep someone off the streets for awhile.
>> The horrible conditions in prisons here in Mississippi only strengthen
>> hostility of the prisoners to society in general and conservatives are
>> happy to keep cutting prison budgets so they can suffer even more from
>> clogged toilets, terrible food, and more.  Sensory deprivation, aka total
>> isolation, is cruel and unusual punishment but often used.  Result:  prison
>> riots that more than occasionally kill some inmates. And who cares
>> about them? Then they are turned loose to do it again.  Some people can be
>> rehabilitated.  Some can get off their addictions, but they get no help
>> here.  No money for programs like these.
>>
>> So - vengeance against lawbreakers is misplaced in many ways, but of
>> course conservatives would not dream of 'coddling' criminals.  Creating
>> pain and suffering are their only weapons and they are simply not working,
>> as recidivism statistics reveal.  Studies of positive punishment of
>> children are similar:  kids grow up worse if the only discipline is
>> physical - numerous studies on that.  In poor, esp. in minority
>> communities, kids learn that they have done something wrong when they are
>> yelled at and hit, and yelling and hitting them becomes the only thing
>> that gets their attention.  This is why minority kids act up in schools -
>> no one can yell or hit them, so they don't take anything seriously.
>>
>> Try forgiveness, even of poor drivers.  It will improve your mental
>> health and overall attitude towards living.
>>
>> This really requires a much longer post with added references to studies,
>> but maybe it's a start.  bill w
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 9:25 AM John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 9:33 AM Brent Allsop <brent.allsop at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> *> Hi John,*
>>>> *Seems to me morality can be based on some, what seem to me to be
>>>> necessary fundamental truths, like existence or living is better than
>>>> dying,*
>>>>
>>>
>>> Usually yeah, but I think oblivion would be preferable to intense
>>> unrelenting pain.
>>>
>>>
>>>> * > knowing is better than not knowing (i.e. "find out more about how
>>>> the universe works",*
>>>>
>>>
>>> That would be my opinion, but I don't know how to logically prove it.  I
>>> don't think there's any chance of ever developing a morality that is both
>>> complete and self consistent since it's impossible to do that even for
>>> something as straightforward as arithmetic.
>>>
>>> *> social is better than anti social...*
>>>>
>>>
>>> Some people would just prefer to be alone, I don't think that is either
>>> good or evil it's just a preference, and there's no disputing matters
>>> of taste.
>>>
>>>
>>>> *> This is why evolution towards that which is better is a logically
>>>> necessity, in any sufficiently complex system.*
>>>> *The opposite of evolution is logically impossible, right?*
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's improbable Evolution will precisely retrace its steps, but that
>>> doesn't mean a human would conclude the end results will always be an
>>> improvement. Evolution's goal is not to increase complexity or to become
>>> more intelligent but to get more genes into the next generation by
>>> outcompeting the competition. And sometimes that results in something
>>> simpler, dumber and more primitive; for example that is often seen in the
>>> evolution of non-parasites into parasites.
>>> John K Clark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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