[ExI] the science might be wrong

[Henry Rivera]

Sorry about those image sizes. They fit my screen when composing the email,
and I was expecting to get prompted by my client about what size to make
them before sending, but it didn't happen for some reason.

Are people really following the mask mandates where you live in the US?
We're pretty good about such things in Massachusetts, same for vaccination
willingness, highest in the country I think. But even here I see many
younger adults acting fearless or oppositional about the whole thing.
Americans are so independent and self-oriented relatively speaking. We look
for and relish in opportunities to assert ourselves and our agency.
Lockdowns are similarly ignored. Haven't you had underground events broken
up in your area, surveillance camera footage shown on the news of tons of
people fleeing a warehouse or bar? I see such things happening in England
too. I'm guessing Singapore didn't have those problems of citizens ignoring
the mandates. If they did, it must have been to a lesser degree. Remember,
this is the place where the fine for littering is
First offense: Fine up to $2,000

*On second conviction: *Fine up to $4,000

*Third or subsequent conviction: *Fine up to $10,000

Breaking some laws in Singapore can come with mandatory cane beatings.

So maybe it's a matter of compliance with mandates. In the US, enforcing
businesses to be closed is happening/has happened. But efforts to stop
close contact and gatherings are failing in many places. Thus in those
places at least, I'm afraid counting the number of cases following these
mask mandates that get ignored won't be indicative of the impact of wearing
a mask on the spread of covid. And as others have noted, even some
compliant people won't wear them right or use ones made from adequate
material.

Why do doctors and dentists wear masks if they are useless? A barrier can
do something to some degree, no? I mean maybe not with covid-19 in
particular within a certain proximity for example. I did read about a case
in a prison where there was rapid spread among a group despite appropriate
PPE on the people infected. But how close were they to each other, how long
were they exposed to each other, how big was the room, what was the air
exchange rate in that location? Those things could all play a role in
determining the probability estimate for getting infected. If all those
variables were doubled, like they were twice as far apart in twice as big a
room etc., would their risk drop in half? We don't have data on that.

Another thing, I am skeptical of the claims that lockdowns cost x number of
lives. Those estimates make assumptions and have flaws. All the time I hear
counts of death by covid are flawed and overestimates. I suspect that is
true to some degree, but it also seems to me that counts of death by
lockdown can't have validity or are probabilistic or hypothetical. Here's
something I found on this:

*"The Washington Examiner* also claims that lockdowns are partly
responsible for excess deaths observed in 2020 not directly attributed to
COVID-19. However, this claim is unsupported by scientific evidence.
Instead, both the *JAMA* and CDC studies list several possible explanations
for these excess deaths, notably “unrecognized or undocumented infection
with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2.” The *JAMA*study also
highlights “disruptions in health care access or utilization” as another
possible explanation for these excess deaths, however it does not attribute
disruption in healthcare access to lockdowns, as the *Washington Examiner*
article does." (
https://www.newswise.com/factcheck/are-a-third-of-the-excess-deaths-this-year-not-linked-to-covid-19-yes-are-they-directly-linked-to-the-lockdown-it-s-complicated/?article_id=740863&fc=politics_channel
)

Have a good weekend,

-Henry

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 9:40 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *From:* extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> *On Behalf
> Of *Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat
>
>
>
> >…OK, so as I suspected, even if you agreed that mandating the wearing of
> masks would save lives, and that it could be adequately enforced, you would
> still not support it.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Stathis Papaioannou
>
>
>
>
>
> I wouldn’t.  I would agree with wearing one myself however, and would.
>
>
>
> Consider the MINO: mask in name only.  They are made of spandex.  Very
> comfortable, one scarcely knows one is wearing it.  Doesn’t get wet
> inside.  Doesn’t trap anything.  Clearly states it is not for medical
> purposes, it is only for fashion purposes.  Well, that is still a mask.
>
>
>
> Government cannot force this upon us.  We don’t want a government with the
> power to dictate that kind of thing, particularly since it has demonstrated
> it doesn’t know how to handle pandemics.  Some governments did better than
> others, but the better ones did less.
>
>
>
> spike
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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