[ExI] enough time has passed...

[Stathis Papaioannou]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 11:42, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I don't think that dying of a drug or a gunshot is cruel.  Gets it over
> quickly and that's a kindness.  The electric chair is more along the lines
> of cruelty and even short torture.
>
> A sore arm is cruel?  Really?
>
> I am mostly opposed to any of them, but if it had to be done, then a
> chamber of pure nitrogen is the kindest of all.  bill w
>

The cruelty of the execution method pales in comparison with the cruelty of
locking someone up and telling them that they will be killed. That’s why
murder, even if quick and painless, is generally considered the worst crime.

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 5:23 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 09:00, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Jail is bad enough, I think the Supreme Court needs to decide that
>>> solitary confinement is cruel and unusual punishment.  Psychologically it
>>> just a terrible thing to do to a person.  bill w
>>>
>>
>> Killing them is also cruel, if not unusual. More cruel than solitary
>> confinement or a botched execution attempt causing a sore arm where the
>> injection leaked out.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 1:29 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022, 1:37 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The only problem I have with the 'tough on crime' attitude is that
>>>>> draconian measures are often used, such as the three and out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Three felonies of any kind means life in prison.  Some third crimes
>>>>> are ridiculous in nature but judges hands are tied in most places.  Drug
>>>>> crimes are the worst.  Small amounts of something put people away for life
>>>>> and that's just wrong.  Crimes against people, and to a much lesser extent,
>>>>> property, should be the focus - not victimless crimes.  (please don't tell
>>>>> me that there aren't such - I am aware of the argument)
>>>>>
>>>>> This also costs billions of dollars to taxpayers, millions of whom are
>>>>> committing the little crimes that are putting people in jail for life.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know what is happening in Colorado?  Now that pot is
>>>>> legal, what about the people in jail for simply possessing it?  Should they
>>>>> be set free?
>>>>>
>>>>> Tough on crime can mean swatting flies with hammers.  bill w
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 12:16 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *…*> *On Behalf Of *William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] enough time has passed...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >…Tribal fear conditioning:  just what did you have in mind here?
>>>>>> It is my belief that xenophobia is innate.  Perhaps only the directions of
>>>>>> the fears are determined by social conditioning.  Is that what you meant?
>>>>>> bill w
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Billw, ja you and I agree on this.  You are right.  It is clear to me
>>>>>> that xenophobia is innate, but can be suppressed and controlled, just as we
>>>>>> can learn to control negative emotions such as anger and fear.  Xenophobia
>>>>>> is a negative emotion that societal evolution has placed in human kind (and
>>>>>> every other kind for that matter.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Over time, our lives have become safer (by a lot.)  The notion of
>>>>>> treating everyone as equals has a chance to grow into reality if we can
>>>>>> maintain a safe society, where fear is low and trust is high.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A society which is soft on crime results in more crime, which results
>>>>>> in more fear and distrust, which results in reduced acceptance of those
>>>>>> less similar which results in crackdowns on crime.  This notion is in
>>>>>> harmony with Pinker, Dawkins, Geoffrey Miller and to a large extent even
>>>>>> Nicholas Christakis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Billw, I have very little cognitive dissonance on the topic of human
>>>>>> nature.  It is clear enough to me how we got to be the way we are, and
>>>>>> where we are going from here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> spike
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> extropy-chat mailing list
>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>>>>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> extropy-chat mailing list
>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>>>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah tough on crime isn't something I like in its current incarnation.
>>>> I think jail is torture and that the government shouldn't be allowed to
>>>> execute people.
>>>>
>>>> Mostly need to focus on education and reducing poverty. For crimes
>>>> focus on rehabilitation not retribution.  Bloodthirst solves nothing.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps no jail, replace with some kind of financial outcast system.
>>>> But castes have their own issues
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> extropy-chat mailing list
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> extropy-chat mailing list
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>>
>> --
>> Stathis Papaioannou
>> _______________________________________________
>> extropy-chat mailing list
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
-- 
Stathis Papaioannou
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20220124/9ece55d7/attachment-0001.htm>