[ExI] 27 psychedelics??

Fri Mar 18 16:58:19 UTC 2022

The ultimate truths of the mind can't really be written down or expressed,
and if you tried to make them conform to current logic systems they would
appear to be self-contradictory.  However, you can still vaguely remember
the insights and use them as a guide in your life, and when guiding others,
even if you can't actually communicate them to others.  It's like trying to
describe color to someone who could only see in black and white; the issue
isn't writing or language or anything, but experience.

In my experience, stoned thoughts and tripping thoughts have some overlap
but the latter tend to be much more legitimately profound and much harder
to express.

What is crazy to me is how few people here have tried psychedelics, which I
think is owed to the terrible marketing pitch they've gotten for the
past few decades.

My pitch would be something like:

"Are you interested in taking an extremely nontoxic medicine that will give
you the ability to think a thousand times faster and more expansively than
normal* and have access to parts of your mind** you didn't even know
existed?

*May include going nuts
**May include vast nightmare realms"

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 12:27 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> What a lovely place you describe.  I don't know why they can't put some
> pictures and plants in offices and hospital rooms.  The more it feels like
> home the better the patients will feel.
>
> But your last sentence is highly suspicious.  Great insights into oneself
> or our culture etc. are said to be obtained in a trip.  When one gets back
> to normal, some of those 'insights' look rather quotidian.  "Why did I ever
> think that that was profound?"  , perhaps referring to something written
> down while stoned - common.
>
> So why don't the trippers write the psych books?  No hard data, I
> suspect.   bill w
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 11:59 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Honestly it's an uphill battle in the current medical/psychotherapeutic
>> milieu.  A psychedelic trip is just about the furthest you can get from the
>> western medicine vibe.  A fluorescently lit clinic is not a good place to
>> trip.  Nor is some futuristic minimalistic clinic like I've seen ads for,
>> in my opinion.  They need like, old houses with dim incandescent lights,
>> hardwood floors, incense, persian rugs, lots of throw pillows, a big grassy
>> yard with a pond and a flower garden, etc.  With lots of different rooms
>> and potential activities, spaces to change things up to calm or stimulate
>> the mind depending on what is needed.  And the therapists need to be
>> experienced in taking psychedelics themselves, there is no other way.  Just
>> being on a psychedelic can give you more insight into the human mind than
>> an entire doctorate degree.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 5:32 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> What is exciting to me is that they are on their way to more easily
>>> manipulate emotions and other brain states.  Think what they would mean for
>>> mental health.  The antidepressants and tranquilizers we have now are very
>>> crude.  bill w
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 2:26 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also perhaps research growing Echinopsis pachanoi/Lophophora
>>>> williamsii, and also a little monkey told me is is very, very easy to use
>>>> Uncle Ben's microwaveable rice packets to grow many kinds of mushrooms,
>>>> from the bold porcini, to the subtle chanterelle, to the freaky-deaky
>>>> Psilocybe cubensis, which apparently has spores you can order online
>>>> completely legally, for looking at with your microscope of course, and it
>>>> would of course be illegal to use those rice packets as starter substrates
>>>> for said groovy mushrooms.  And apparently there is a community here
>>>> dedicated to growing all the aforementioned legal edible/medicinal
>>>> mushrooms here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unclebens/ and totally not
>>>> the kind that will make you realize you and I and the universe are all one
>>>> conscious being (but also infinite beings).  These little animals are
>>>> saying some crazy stuff!
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 3:18 PM Will Steinberg <
>>>> steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In general they would be mostly synthetic or semisynthetic (ergotamine
>>>>> precursor, could use dmt or ephedrine from plants as a precursor, etc) but
>>>>> there are reports of adding psychedelics to the growth substrate of
>>>>> psilocybe mushrooms which may cause them to hydroxylate the 4th position on
>>>>> the indole ring of whatever chem was added.  So in theory adding DiPT to
>>>>> the mushroom substrate can produce some 4-HO-DiPT in addition to the
>>>>> already present 4-HO-DMT (psilocin, which becomes O-phosphoryl-psilocin
>>>>> (psilocybin) in the plant so maybe the resultant chem would be
>>>>> O-phosphoryl-4-HO-DiPT?) .
>>>>>
>>>>> As for the theoretical home researcher, a little bird with huge pupils
>>>>> told me it is exceedingly easy and 100% legal to order Psychotria viridis
>>>>> leaf and Banisteriopsis caapi vine from European clearnet sources, and then
>>>>> it would technically be illegal, but very hard to find or prove given use
>>>>> in a closed environment like, say, your house, to brew these into
>>>>> ayahuasca, which could technically be dosed with various ratios of the leaf
>>>>> (DMT) and vine (MAOI) as well as admixture plants, or other DMT/MAOI
>>>>> containing plants like mimosa hostilis/acacia confusa for DMT or syrian rue
>>>>> for harmala alkaloid MAOI, to produce anywhere from a microdose experience
>>>>> to a mild shroom-type experience to a full-blown 12-hour shit-your-pants
>>>>> vision quest experience.   But that's just what the bird told me.  He also
>>>>> said something about psychedelic and dissociative analog chemicals also
>>>>> being readily available on the clearnet, including ones that are just
>>>>> straight-up prodrugs for LSD and the like, and are bizarrely completely
>>>>> legal, but he was frying pretty hard at that point and was saying some shit
>>>>> about dark matter being consciousness or something.  Idk
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 1:06 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat
>>>>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 11:17 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> numerous substituted indoles/tryptamines and substituted
>>>>>>> phenethylamines. 4-AcO-DMT or 2C-B for example
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!  I'll check my local pharmacy!  I assume these and most
>>>>>> others are synthetic, not naturally derived from plants, mushrooms, etc.
>>>>>> Otherwise, where can I get the seeds?  bill w
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 11:39 AM William Flynn Wallace via
>>>>>>> extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://neurosciencenews.com/psychedelics-conscious-awareness-20203/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which ones am I missing out on?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bill w
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