[ExI] 27 psychedelics??

Fri Mar 18 21:31:40 UTC 2022

I know nothing about the research literature in psych re psychedelics.
Probably not a lot of it because of legalities.  But surely someone has
tested people who were tripping with some standard tests and such, and
could verify your assertion about thinking faster.

I don't think we were 'meant' to look into our ids in raw form.  I think it
might cause someone to go psychotic - or something.  Inability to express
one's inner dimensions is what killed introspection as a research tool in
psych.  In the fairly near future I think we will be able to hook a person
up to some equipment and tell pretty closely what they are feeling.  What
they are thinking may be next to impossible.   Too many possibilities.
bill w

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 12:00 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> The ultimate truths of the mind can't really be written down or expressed,
> and if you tried to make them conform to current logic systems they would
> appear to be self-contradictory.  However, you can still vaguely remember
> the insights and use them as a guide in your life, and when guiding others,
> even if you can't actually communicate them to others.  It's like trying to
> describe color to someone who could only see in black and white; the issue
> isn't writing or language or anything, but experience.
>
> In my experience, stoned thoughts and tripping thoughts have some overlap
> but the latter tend to be much more legitimately profound and much harder
> to express.
>
> What is crazy to me is how few people here have tried psychedelics, which
> I think is owed to the terrible marketing pitch they've gotten for the
> past few decades.
>
> My pitch would be something like:
>
> "Are you interested in taking an extremely nontoxic medicine that will
> give you the ability to think a thousand times faster and more expansively
> than normal* and have access to parts of your mind** you didn't even know
> existed?
>
> *May include going nuts
> **May include vast nightmare realms"
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 12:27 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> What a lovely place you describe.  I don't know why they can't put some
>> pictures and plants in offices and hospital rooms.  The more it feels like
>> home the better the patients will feel.
>>
>> But your last sentence is highly suspicious.  Great insights into oneself
>> or our culture etc. are said to be obtained in a trip.  When one gets back
>> to normal, some of those 'insights' look rather quotidian.  "Why did I ever
>> think that that was profound?"  , perhaps referring to something written
>> down while stoned - common.
>>
>> So why don't the trippers write the psych books?  No hard data, I
>> suspect.   bill w
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 11:59 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Honestly it's an uphill battle in the current medical/psychotherapeutic
>>> milieu.  A psychedelic trip is just about the furthest you can get from the
>>> western medicine vibe.  A fluorescently lit clinic is not a good place to
>>> trip.  Nor is some futuristic minimalistic clinic like I've seen ads for,
>>> in my opinion.  They need like, old houses with dim incandescent lights,
>>> hardwood floors, incense, persian rugs, lots of throw pillows, a big grassy
>>> yard with a pond and a flower garden, etc.  With lots of different rooms
>>> and potential activities, spaces to change things up to calm or stimulate
>>> the mind depending on what is needed.  And the therapists need to be
>>> experienced in taking psychedelics themselves, there is no other way.  Just
>>> being on a psychedelic can give you more insight into the human mind than
>>> an entire doctorate degree.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 5:32 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is exciting to me is that they are on their way to more easily
>>>> manipulate emotions and other brain states.  Think what they would mean for
>>>> mental health.  The antidepressants and tranquilizers we have now are very
>>>> crude.  bill w
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 2:26 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Also perhaps research growing Echinopsis pachanoi/Lophophora
>>>>> williamsii, and also a little monkey told me is is very, very easy to use
>>>>> Uncle Ben's microwaveable rice packets to grow many kinds of mushrooms,
>>>>> from the bold porcini, to the subtle chanterelle, to the freaky-deaky
>>>>> Psilocybe cubensis, which apparently has spores you can order online
>>>>> completely legally, for looking at with your microscope of course, and it
>>>>> would of course be illegal to use those rice packets as starter substrates
>>>>> for said groovy mushrooms.  And apparently there is a community here
>>>>> dedicated to growing all the aforementioned legal edible/medicinal
>>>>> mushrooms here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unclebens/ and totally not
>>>>> the kind that will make you realize you and I and the universe are all one
>>>>> conscious being (but also infinite beings).  These little animals are
>>>>> saying some crazy stuff!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 3:18 PM Will Steinberg <
>>>>> steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In general they would be mostly synthetic or semisynthetic
>>>>>> (ergotamine precursor, could use dmt or ephedrine from plants as a
>>>>>> precursor, etc) but there are reports of adding psychedelics to the growth
>>>>>> substrate of psilocybe mushrooms which may cause them to hydroxylate the
>>>>>> 4th position on the indole ring of whatever chem was added.  So in theory
>>>>>> adding DiPT to the mushroom substrate can produce some 4-HO-DiPT in
>>>>>> addition to the already present 4-HO-DMT (psilocin, which becomes
>>>>>> O-phosphoryl-psilocin (psilocybin) in the plant so maybe the resultant chem
>>>>>> would be O-phosphoryl-4-HO-DiPT?) .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the theoretical home researcher, a little bird with huge
>>>>>> pupils told me it is exceedingly easy and 100% legal to order Psychotria
>>>>>> viridis leaf and Banisteriopsis caapi vine from European clearnet sources,
>>>>>> and then it would technically be illegal, but very hard to find or prove
>>>>>> given use in a closed environment like, say, your house, to brew these into
>>>>>> ayahuasca, which could technically be dosed with various ratios of the leaf
>>>>>> (DMT) and vine (MAOI) as well as admixture plants, or other DMT/MAOI
>>>>>> containing plants like mimosa hostilis/acacia confusa for DMT or syrian rue
>>>>>> for harmala alkaloid MAOI, to produce anywhere from a microdose experience
>>>>>> to a mild shroom-type experience to a full-blown 12-hour shit-your-pants
>>>>>> vision quest experience.   But that's just what the bird told me.  He also
>>>>>> said something about psychedelic and dissociative analog chemicals also
>>>>>> being readily available on the clearnet, including ones that are just
>>>>>> straight-up prodrugs for LSD and the like, and are bizarrely completely
>>>>>> legal, but he was frying pretty hard at that point and was saying some shit
>>>>>> about dark matter being consciousness or something.  Idk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 1:06 PM William Flynn Wallace via
>>>>>> extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 11:17 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> numerous substituted indoles/tryptamines and substituted
>>>>>>>> phenethylamines. 4-AcO-DMT or 2C-B for example
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!  I'll check my local pharmacy!  I assume these and most
>>>>>>> others are synthetic, not naturally derived from plants, mushrooms, etc.
>>>>>>> Otherwise, where can I get the seeds?  bill w
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 11:39 AM William Flynn Wallace via
>>>>>>>> extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://neurosciencenews.com/psychedelics-conscious-awareness-20203/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which ones am I missing out on?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bill w
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