[ExI] Nobody knows the true colors of things, on this day of color.

Sat Mar 19 00:10:19 UTC 2022

Are there infinitely possible primary colors, given there are infinitely
many possible organizations of brains?

There're colorblind people and most mammals with two primary colors,
primates and fish with three, birds and some tetrachromat humans with four,
and I think there's some shrimp with 16. If there's no fundamental limit to
the number of primary colors a mind can perceive, then are primary colors
physical/chemical/neurological properties, or are they
logical/informational/mathematical properties? I lean towards the latter
grouping.

Jason

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 7:50 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Hi Darin,
>
> When say "colors" are you talking about properties of things that reflect
> a particular pattern of light, the properties of the light, or the
> intrinsic qualities you brain uses to represent conscious knowledge of red
> things?  All very different things.
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 4:17 PM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> All objects with a specific property are made of arrangements of things
>> that lack that property.
>>
>> Colors are formed by particular arrangements of atoms and particles that
>> are intrinsically colorless.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:09 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yes, any language that uses only one abstract word, for everything that
>>> represents 'red' makes that language qualia blind  or unable to represent
>>> different intrinsic physical qualities which may be representing red.
>>> All of our peer reviewed physics, in it's entirety does this. so none of
>>> it can model different qualities like redness and greenness.
>>> That is why we use the term 'redness' or colorness intrinsic qualities,
>>> to distinguish from red and color intrinsic qualities.
>>> Something is 'red' if it reflects or emits red light, it has a color.
>>> Redness, is something entirely different, it is a colorness quality.  An
>>> intrinsic quality out of which your consciousness is composed.
>>>
>>> A big part of consciousness is the ability to computationally bind
>>> elemental qualities like redness and greenness together, to enabl3e
>>> computation like: I (represented by something in your brain) intend to eat
>>> that strawberry, represented by redness quality, also in your brain.
>>>
>>> Adrian claimed my definition is circular.
>>>
>>> No it isn't circular.  If we experimentally demonstrated that our
>>> description of glutamate, reacting in a synapse, is your redness, and
>>> glycine is your greenness, then these would be saying the same thing.
>>>
>>> objective version:  My glutamate knowledge is like your
>>> glycine knowledge, both of which we call red.
>>> Subjective version: My redness knowledge is like your greenness
>>> knowledge, both of which we call red.
>>>
>>> Just because our brain seems be gray (we represent out knowledge of it
>>> with something that has a greyness quality) doesn't mean al that stuff is
>>> actually gray.
>>>
>>>
>>> Another important part of all this, is there are two ways to gain
>>> knowledge.
>>> We can see colors, (can be mistaken, if you get the dictionary wrong)
>>> and we directly apprehend colorness qualities (can't be mistaken),
>>> representing our knowledge of colored things, the final result of color
>>> perception.
>>> For more detail see our Distinguishing between reality and knowledge of
>>> reality
>>> <https://canonizer.com/videos/consciousness/?chapter=differentiate_reality_knowledge>
>>> chapter of our video.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 3:48 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 at 08:38, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think that what you see is what you get and that there is no
>>>>> intrinsic color of anything.  I don't even know what intrinsic means in
>>>>> this context.   bill w
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think Brent means the experience of the colour, or colour qualia, as
>>>> opposed to description of the processes that lead to the experience.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Happy color festival, everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you guys realize, nobody knows the true intrinsic color of
>>>>>> anything?  All we know is the colors things seem to be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See my answer to a question on color on Quora.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.S.  Thank you Stathis, for your upvote.  That is HUGE for me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Stathis Papaioannou
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