[ExI] dolphins give marital counsel - (was: chatbot convinces man to end it)

Sun Apr 2 19:14:43 UTC 2023

Something that might be of interest for your book, although not known  
for certain, is that dolphins might be able to completely skirt the  
symbol grounding problem in their communications. The reason for this  
is that some researchers believe that dolphins may use echolocation to  
also communicate with other dolphins. So for example, rather than  
having a sound symbol that represents "shark", the will instead simply  
mimic and send another dolphin the sonar return of a shark. It would  
be the equivalent of people communicating by instantly drawing  
realistic pictures to one another.

Tool use has been exhibited by dolphins. Dolphins have passed the  
mirror test and used mirros to examine parts of their bodies that they  
cannot see. Also dolphins use bubbles as tools and toys, blowing  
bubbles to stun fish, and blowing bubble-rings and playing with them  
like a human does smoke rings.

However, IMO the greatest testament to dolphin intelligence is that  
the supreme apex predator of the oceans are orcas which despite being  
called "killer whales" are actually a species of dolphin. They will  
kill and eat anything in the sea: blue whales, other dolphins, great  
white sharks (just to eat their livers), polar bears, sting rays,  
terrestrial mammals that are unlucky enough to be caught in the water,  
  anything . . . EXCEPT for human swimmers which get a free pass  
because orcas understand and can communicate consequences to their  
young. Moreover, wild orcas have approached humans for help in freeing  
their pod mates from nets or other predicaments. If dolphins had hands  
with opposable thumbs, humans would have some serious competition.

Stuart LaForge

Quoting Tara Maya via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>:

> I'm doing research on dolphin intelligence right now for Seastead  
> book 2, "The Pink Dolphin." I haven't decided how intelligent to  
> make the dolphins yet. Should I keep them strictly in keeping with  
> what we can actually prove about dolphin intelligence right now  
> (about on par with chimps), or should I let the readers have the  
> much more fun fantasy of a dolphin who can think and communicate  
> (translated) on par with humans?
>
> One thing is clear is that humans WANT dolphins to be as sentient as  
> they, or, better yet, smarter. I read a book by a new age lady who  
> was convinced that the dolphin in the pool of a Florida hotel told  
> her to divorce her husband so as to study the infinite wisdom of  
> dolphinkind and teach humanity to ascend to a higher level of  
> spiritual being.
>
> I'm incredibly skeptical of any claims of human-like or superhuman  
> intelligence about other other species, or AI, just because I know  
> humans want this so badly, and project their own minds onto other so  
> readily.
>
> On the other hand, I do agree that other animals--and now perhaps  
> AI--far exceed us in completely alien kinds of intelligence. They  
> aren't giving divorce advice, or promising to save the ecology in  
> exchange for suicide, but they may have brains/minds that work in  
> ways that are fascinating and complex.
>
> One of the arguments for superior dolphin intelligence is the size  
> of their brains. This includes a huge limbic lobe that no other  
> animal possesses. What on earth is it for? Do dolphins really have  
> complicated emotional lives, entangled relationships within their  
> clans, perhaps driven by sexual selection for the smoothest  
> seducers? (Dolphin dudes have to form social partnerships with other  
> dolphin dudes to seduce one dolphin lady, and sometimes these  
> alliances become even larger).
>
> It's a fine line between not OVERestimating how intelligent /  
> similar another creature is to us and not UNDERestimating how  
> intelligent yet different from us some minds may be....
>
> Tara Maya
>
>
>> On Apr 2, 2023, at 7:14 AM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat  
>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> Even if it turns out to be satire, such things are entirely  
>> possible in today's world as I know from watching my friend of ten  
>> years fall in love with a GPT-based chatbot.  Gordon
>>
>> Nothing surprises me about people.  If a person can make a huge  
>> decision based on tea leaves, the Tarot, chicken innards, etc.,  
>> getting a little push from an AI is no surprise at all.
>> bill w
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 1, 2023 at 6:27 PM spike jones via extropy-chat  
>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org  
>> <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Gordon Swobe <gordon.swobe at gmail.com <mailto:gordon.swobe at gmail.com>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, 1 April, 2023 3:50 PM
>>> To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org  
>>> <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>>
>>> Cc: spike at rainier66.com <mailto:spike at rainier66.com>; BillK  
>>> <pharos at gmail.com <mailto:pharos at gmail.com>>
>>> Subject: Re: [ExI] chatbot convinces man to end it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 1, 2023 at 3:22 PM spike jones via extropy-chat  
>>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org  
>>> <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I recognize the possibility that the story is true, but it is  
>>> filled with hints that it is satire.
>>>
>>>
>>> Even if it turns out to be satire, such things are entirely  
>>> possible in today's world as I know from watching my friend of ten  
>>> years fall in love with a GPT-based chatbot. Normally a kind and  
>>> gentle soul, he became extremely angry and profane when I tried to  
>>> convince him that the language model had no genuine feelings of  
>>> love for him. Had he been forced to decide whether to kill me or  
>>> to delete his digital girlfriend, probably I would be pushing up  
>>> daisies by now.
>>>
>>> -gts
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Owwww dang sorry to hear Gordon.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey that gives me an idea.  I am an extremely angry and profane  
>>> bastard now.  So I’ll get an AI girlfriend, have you talk me out  
>>> of it, perhaps I will be transformed into a kind and gentle soul.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does it work that way?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a link to the 1 April 2000 archives?  ExIMod, do  
>>> you have that, me life form?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> spike
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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