[ExI] dolphins give marital counsel - (was: chatbot convinces man to end it)

Sun Apr 2 16:47:56 UTC 2023

On Sun, Apr 2, 2023, 11:04 AM Tara Maya via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I'm doing research on dolphin intelligence right now for Seastead book 2,
> "The Pink Dolphin." I haven't decided how intelligent to make the dolphins
> yet. Should I keep them strictly in keeping with what we can actually prove
> about dolphin intelligence right now (about on par with chimps), or should
> I let the readers have the much more fun fantasy of a dolphin who can think
> and communicate (translated) on par with humans?
>

"It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
learned English - up to fifty words used in correct context - no human
being has been reported to have learned dolphinese."
-- Carl Sagan

Dolphins have larger brains than humans and a comparable brain to body mass
ratios, and their ratio is significantly greater than that of chimps.

See 'Figure 2' in this paper:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4685590/#!po=38.0597

So I would say the jury's still out on which is the more intelligent
species.

> One thing is clear is that humans WANT dolphins to be as sentient as they,
> or, better yet, smarter. I read a book by a new age lady who was convinced
> that the dolphin in the pool of a Florida hotel told her to divorce her
> husband so as to study the infinite wisdom of dolphinkind and teach
> humanity to ascend to a higher level of spiritual being.
>
> I'm incredibly skeptical of any claims of human-like or superhuman
> intelligence about other other species, or AI, just because I know humans
> want this so badly, and project their own minds onto other so readily.
>

Good point.

> On the other hand, I do agree that other animals--and now perhaps AI--far
> exceed us in completely alien kinds of intelligence. They aren't giving
> divorce advice, or promising to save the ecology in exchange for suicide,
> but they may have brains/minds that work in ways that are fascinating and
> complex.
>

I sometimes wonder what abilities we lost when our brains acquired
language. Presumably those neurons did something else before. We often see
superhuman abilities emerge in savants whose brains are deficient in other
areas. Perhaps these abilities are present or common in other animal
species.

> One of the arguments for superior dolphin intelligence is the size of
> their brains. This includes a huge limbic lobe that no other animal
> possesses. What on earth is it for? Do dolphins really have complicated
> emotional lives, entangled relationships within their clans, perhaps driven
> by sexual selection for the smoothest seducers? (Dolphin dudes have to form
> social partnerships with other dolphin dudes to seduce one dolphin lady,
> and sometimes these alliances become even larger).
>
> It's a fine line between not OVERestimating how intelligent / similar
> another creature is to us and not UNDERestimating how intelligent yet
> different from us some minds may be....
>

Either way it will be an estimate, but granting them high intelligence will
provide for more narrative possibility.

Jason

>
> On Apr 2, 2023, at 7:14 AM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Even if it turns out to be satire, such things are entirely possible in
> today's world as I know from watching my friend of ten years fall in love
> with a GPT-based chatbot.  Gordon
>
> Nothing surprises me about people.  If a person can make a huge decision
> based on tea leaves, the Tarot, chicken innards, etc., getting a little
> push from an AI is no surprise at all.
> bill w
>
> On Sat, Apr 1, 2023 at 6:27 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Gordon Swobe <gordon.swobe at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, 1 April, 2023 3:50 PM
>> *To:* ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
>> *Cc:* spike at rainier66.com; BillK <pharos at gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] chatbot convinces man to end it
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 1, 2023 at 3:22 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> I recognize the possibility that the story is true, but it is filled with
>> hints that it is satire.
>>
>>
>> Even if it turns out to be satire, such things are entirely possible in
>> today's world as I know from watching my friend of ten years fall in love
>> with a GPT-based chatbot. Normally a kind and gentle soul, he became
>> extremely angry and profane when I tried to convince him that the language
>> model had no genuine feelings of love for him. Had he been forced to decide
>> whether to kill me or to delete his digital girlfriend, probably I would be
>> pushing up daisies by now.
>>
>> -gts
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Owwww dang sorry to hear Gordon.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey that gives me an idea.  I am an extremely angry and profane bastard
>> now.  So I’ll get an AI girlfriend, have you talk me out of it, perhaps I
>> will be transformed into a kind and gentle soul.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does it work that way?
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have a link to the 1 April 2000 archives?  ExIMod, do you
>> have that, me life form?
>>
>>
>>
>> spike
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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