[ExI] new term

[William Flynn Wallace]

I agree with what you say, but I still think that semantics is not a proper
term for something as trivial as arguing over which word is appropriate
rather than focusing on the meaning.    bill w

On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 11:12 AM Gadersd via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I object to the word 'semantics' being used just to refer to your
> choice of words.  There is no 'just' to it.  It is about the meaning of
> written or oral language to go with grammar, syntax and so on.  Nothing
> could be more important.
>
>
> “Arguing semantics” is a phrase used in philosophy to refer to an argument
> over definitions rather than the actual content of an idea. This is an
> important distinction. Labels are often arbitrary and real progress cannot
> proceed without agreement on the definitions of the terms used, otherwise
> people are just talking past each other. Imagine two physicists arguing
> over the idea of energy while using different personal definitions. This
> doesn’t often happen because physicists rigorously define all the terms
> they use so there is no conflict of definition. People in less rigorous
> fields such as philosophy often do make this mistake and never get past
> definitions to the underlying ideas.
>
> On Apr 10, 2023, at 8:07 AM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> I object to the word 'semantics' being used just to refer to your
> choice of words.  There is no 'just' to it.  It is about the meaning of
> written or oral language to go with grammar, syntax and so on.  Nothing
> could be more important.   bill w
>
> On Sun, Apr 9, 2023 at 6:25 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 9 Apr 2023, Gadersd via extropy-chat wrote:
>>
>> > I used to describe myself with labels but I eventually realized that my
>> definitions of many labels doesn’t agree with the definitions others use
>> and that definitions shift over time. The result is that many people end up
>> arguing semantics rather than the actual content of their beliefs.
>> >
>>
>> Makes 100% sense. I have a friend who is a "social" libertarian and I'm
>> more "classic" and a way to understanding and empathy for us is to talk
>> scenarios and content and not labels, and also talk about the reasons for
>> the opinion.
>>
>> I think Habermas has some technique or method to facilitate this. But
>> reading newspapers today and listening to politicians, I think Habermas
>> method might just be the whisper of a dream. ;)
>>
>> > This reminds me of the old trend in artificial intelligence of using
>> symbol based methods. This paradigm eventually fell out of favor when
>> machine learning became popular. The reason is that symbols often don’t
>> actually reflect the underlying reality they represent, often they are just
>> arbitrary labels. By focusing on raw computation, machine learning has a
>> much greater ability to model actual reality and achieves much better
>> results in practice than symbol based methods. Technically, it is all
>> symbols deep down: 1s and 0s. However, machine learning computes at a much
>> lower level than symbol based methods, sort of like the difference between
>> computing the digits 3.14… of pi vs using just the symbol π.
>> >
>>
>> I also tend to think in terms of computer science and how systems work,
>> and I am frequently reminded as well of the similarity of things. But I
>> guess we have at some level "encoded" or "rediscovered" our basic
>> natures in our wonderful computers, so it is probably just very natural.
>> ;)
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