[ExI] new term

[Gadersd]

> I agree with what you say, but I still think that semantics is not a proper term for something as trivial as arguing over which word is appropriate rather than focusing on the meaning.

Now we are just arguing semantics.

> On Apr 10, 2023, at 12:36 PM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> 
> I agree with what you say, but I still think that semantics is not a proper term for something as trivial as arguing over which word is appropriate rather than focusing on the meaning.    bill w
> 
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 11:12 AM Gadersd via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>> wrote:
>> I object to the word 'semantics' being used just to refer to your choice of words.  There is no 'just' to it.  It is about the meaning of written or oral language to go with grammar, syntax and so on.  Nothing could be more important. 
> 
> “Arguing semantics” is a phrase used in philosophy to refer to an argument over definitions rather than the actual content of an idea. This is an important distinction. Labels are often arbitrary and real progress cannot proceed without agreement on the definitions of the terms used, otherwise people are just talking past each other. Imagine two physicists arguing over the idea of energy while using different personal definitions. This doesn’t often happen because physicists rigorously define all the terms they use so there is no conflict of definition. People in less rigorous fields such as philosophy often do make this mistake and never get past definitions to the underlying ideas.
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 8:07 AM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> I object to the word 'semantics' being used just to refer to your choice of words.  There is no 'just' to it.  It is about the meaning of written or oral language to go with grammar, syntax and so on.  Nothing could be more important.   bill w
>> 
>> On Sun, Apr 9, 2023 at 6:25 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>> wrote:
>> On Sun, 9 Apr 2023, Gadersd via extropy-chat wrote:
>> 
>> > I used to describe myself with labels but I eventually realized that my definitions of many labels doesn’t agree with the definitions others use and that definitions shift over time. The result is that many people end up arguing semantics rather than the actual content of their beliefs.
>> >
>> 
>> Makes 100% sense. I have a friend who is a "social" libertarian and I'm
>> more "classic" and a way to understanding and empathy for us is to talk 
>> scenarios and content and not labels, and also talk about the reasons for 
>> the opinion.
>> 
>> I think Habermas has some technique or method to facilitate this. But
>> reading newspapers today and listening to politicians, I think Habermas
>> method might just be the whisper of a dream. ;)
>> 
>> > This reminds me of the old trend in artificial intelligence of using symbol based methods. This paradigm eventually fell out of favor when machine learning became popular. The reason is that symbols often don’t actually reflect the underlying reality they represent, often they are just arbitrary labels. By focusing on raw computation, machine learning has a much greater ability to model actual reality and achieves much better results in practice than symbol based methods. Technically, it is all symbols deep down: 1s and 0s. However, machine learning computes at a much lower level than symbol based methods, sort of like the difference between computing the digits 3.14… of pi vs using just the symbol π.
>> >
>> 
>> I also tend to think in terms of computer science and how systems work,
>> and I am frequently reminded as well of the similarity of things. But I
>> guess we have at some level "encoded" or "rediscovered" our basic
>> natures in our wonderful computers, so it is probably just very natural.
>> ;)
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