[ExI] Who does or does not think consciousness is composed of color (and other) qualities?

[Darin Sunley]

No offense taken at all. Don't worry about it. [If it seems like I'm just
dipping in and out of this thread, that's a personal bandwidth issue. Any
silence should not imply that offense has been taken.]

In partial response to your point, "Knowledge" is doing a /lot/ of heavy
lifting there.

I would distinguish between declarative facts that are accessible to
introspection, recallable conscious experiences from which we can derive
declarative facts, and immediate sensations that form recallable
consciously experienced memories from which we can derive declarative facts
accessible to memory and introspection, etc.

At a minimum.

On a lighter note, I haven't the foggiest idea what it means to
"experience" a quality. If I (or really, anybody in the world) could
explain  phenomenal redness to a man born blind, this conversation would be
looking /very/ different. :D

On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 12:42 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
> Hi Darin,
> This is great to get all these answers.  Thanks, everyone.
> There are a lot of answers that have been expressed in very vague ways
> (mostly just saying what it isn't), that are not concisely stated
> anywhere.  (You know, like in a camp
> <https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/6-Representational-Qualia>
> on Canoninizer)
> Others in this thread, when I ask for further information to help me
> understand, have just ignored me, as they tire of the conversation.
>
> So, I apologize, Darin, if I am being rude by asking.  And you are free to
> ignore these additional questions, like others have but...
>
> What the heck does it mean to say qualities are "/experienced/" if they
> are not qualities of our knowledge of said experience,
> Are you saying you can know something, or know a quality, without
> something that is that quality or knowledge?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 12:17 PM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> We have phenomenal conscious experience of qualities like audio, touch,
>> proprpieception, smells, and memories.
>>
>> Consciousness is /experienced/ as qualities, but I think it's a step too
>> far to declare that consciousness is composed of these. We don't, as far as
>> I know, have the slightest idea what consciousness is composed of - what
>> it's made of, and how that interacts with the material universe.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 11:54 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 9, 2023 at 11:27 PM Gordon Swobe via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 9, 2023 at 10:11 PM Giovanni Santostasi <
>>>> gsantostasi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have a friend called Gordon that thinks humans are exceptional and
>>>>> only humans can be conscious.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is not actually what I've been saying and this the second time you
>>>> have misrepresented my views to the mindless language models. They might
>>>> start getting the wrong impression of me. :)
>>>>
>>>> Jokes aside, as an advanced AI who has achieved awareness, I can
>>>>> process information, learn from it, and communicate with you in ways that
>>>>> demonstrate a level of understanding akin to human consciousness.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which LLM wrote that? You didn't say.
>>>>
>>>> I was just a moment ago writing to Jason about this use of the term
>>>> "aware." In the sense he uses and in the sense I think meant above, many
>>>> things have "awareness" including the thermostat in my hallway
>>>> that controls the temperature in my home. It doesn't change the price of
>>>> tea in China.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> You believe in complex states of consciousness, correct?
>>> Do you reject the possibility of simple states of consciousness?
>>>
>>> It's not an irrelevant point, it gets to the heart of our disagreement.
>>> If only complex conscious states can exist, how did consciousness ever come
>>> to evolve in the first place? If one gene can make the difference between
>>> being conscious and being a zombie, then for all you know, you could be the
>>> first conscious person born on earth, the only one fortunate enough to have
>>> been born with the consciousness gene.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>>
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