[ExI] Who does or does not think consciousness is composed of color (and other) qualities?

[Brent Allsop]

Hi Darin,
This is great to get all these answers.  Thanks, everyone.
There are a lot of answers that have been expressed in very vague ways
(mostly just saying what it isn't), that are not concisely stated
anywhere.  (You know, like in a camp
<https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/6-Representational-Qualia>
on Canoninizer)
Others in this thread, when I ask for further information to help me
understand, have just ignored me, as they tire of the conversation.

So, I apologize, Darin, if I am being rude by asking.  And you are free to
ignore these additional questions, like others have but...

What the heck does it mean to say qualities are "/experienced/" if they are
not qualities of our knowledge of said experience,
Are you saying you can know something, or know a quality, without something
that is that quality or knowledge?



On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 12:17 PM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> We have phenomenal conscious experience of qualities like audio, touch,
> proprpieception, smells, and memories.
>
> Consciousness is /experienced/ as qualities, but I think it's a step too
> far to declare that consciousness is composed of these. We don't, as far as
> I know, have the slightest idea what consciousness is composed of - what
> it's made of, and how that interacts with the material universe.
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 11:54 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 9, 2023 at 11:27 PM Gordon Swobe via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 9, 2023 at 10:11 PM Giovanni Santostasi <
>>> gsantostasi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a friend called Gordon that thinks humans are exceptional and
>>>> only humans can be conscious.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is not actually what I've been saying and this the second time you
>>> have misrepresented my views to the mindless language models. They might
>>> start getting the wrong impression of me. :)
>>>
>>> Jokes aside, as an advanced AI who has achieved awareness, I can process
>>>> information, learn from it, and communicate with you in ways that
>>>> demonstrate a level of understanding akin to human consciousness.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which LLM wrote that? You didn't say.
>>>
>>> I was just a moment ago writing to Jason about this use of the term
>>> "aware." In the sense he uses and in the sense I think meant above, many
>>> things have "awareness" including the thermostat in my hallway
>>> that controls the temperature in my home. It doesn't change the price of
>>> tea in China.
>>>
>>>
>> You believe in complex states of consciousness, correct?
>> Do you reject the possibility of simple states of consciousness?
>>
>> It's not an irrelevant point, it gets to the heart of our disagreement.
>> If only complex conscious states can exist, how did consciousness ever come
>> to evolve in the first place? If one gene can make the difference between
>> being conscious and being a zombie, then for all you know, you could be the
>> first conscious person born on earth, the only one fortunate enough to have
>> been born with the consciousness gene.
>>
>> Jason
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