[ExI] Why stop at glutamate?
gsantostasi at gmail.com
Thu Apr 13 21:31:59 UTC 2023
*Electrons behave the way they do, because they have a quality you have
never experienced before. (Note: I'm a pan qualityist. a panpsychist minus
the pan computational binding ;)*What is this quality?
In physics, we identify particles from their behavior, an electron can be
recognized as such by how it behaves in a magnetic field for example. From
the behavior, we derived some properties like the mass or charge.
But these properties are relational as mentioned so many times. They are
not absolute they are an expression of how an electron behaves when it
interacts with other things like fields of energy or particles. As said so
many times it is all about relationships. There are no qualities.
Brent, why don't you write an entire book about how the world works with
your ideas of quality and try to explain the entire universe using that
They make useful predictions or solve outstanding problems with how to
merge QM with GR.
You know the Nobel Prize is 1 M dollars. And that is just the start if you
do you will be the most thinker in history.
You know right that philosophy started that way? People were saying "The
universe is made of this quality" (water, 4 elements, and so on) and it
didn't help us to understand the universe a bit. This is until Galileo
arrived and said, well I want to measure things, the language of the
universe is mathematics.
Your simple example of how you can use numbers to describe redness shows
that you don't understand what math is. I tell my gf that all the time (she
is struggling with Calculus) it is not about numbers, it is about
relationships and patterns. Math is arithmetic, it is something deeper. And
yes everything can be expressed as a form of math, because math focuses on
relationships and patterns between things.
On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 2:18 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> Hi Gadersd,
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 2:35 PM Gadersd via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> Brent, where is the glutamate quality of electrons, neutrons, and
>> protons? Which electron has the redness quality?
>> Electrons behave the way they do, because they have a quality you have
> never experienced before. (Note: I'm a pan qualityist. a panpsychist minus
> the pan computational binding ;)
> There exists higher order structure that doesn’t exist in the component
>> parts, hence the phrase “more than the sum of the parts."
> I guess that would be a hypothetical possibility. I try to always point
> out that some day, someone will experience redness without glutamate,
> falsifying the prediction that it is glutamate that behaves the way it
> does, because of its redness quality. Once glutamate is falsified, they
> will try something else, possibly including something that is the sum of
> some configuration of parts, or ANYTHING. The reason we use glutamate is
> because it is so easily falsifiable. Falsifiability is what we are missing
> with the qualitative nature of consciousness, and ease of falsifiability is
> the reason we are using glutamate as an easy stand-in for whatever redness
> turns out to be.
> I just wish people with these kinds of "qualities arise from <whatever>"
> theories would explicitly acknowledge (instead of ignoring), what everyone
> knows absolutely, that color qualities are real, and then provide some
> example of some kind of "function" or some configuration of parts, the sum
> total of which could be pointed to and say: "THAT is redness." at least
> in a way that would pass the laugh test?
> i.e. predicting a function like the square root of 4 is redness and the
> square root of 9 is greenness, or 6 flat equal sides are required to make
> yellow, just don't pass the laugh test, do they? If anyone can do any
> better than that, I'll stop laughing.
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