[ExI] are qualia communicable? Was Why stop at glutamate?

Brent Allsop brent.allsop at gmail.com
Sat Apr 15 02:49:00 UTC 2023

Hi Jason,

On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 8:39 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> An elemental quality of everything Jason is describing is a standalone
>> pixel of a redness quality.
> I don't believe in such things. A pixel of redness only exists by virtue
> of it's relations to all the rest of a vastly complex brain. You can't
> pluck it out of the brain and treat it as an independent elemental entity.

Yes, we are simply making different falsifiable predictions, here.  It is
now up to the experimentalist to falsify at least one of our competing
I don't think we have a camp on canonizer, yet based on anything like your
competing idea:  "A pixel of redness only exists by virtue of it's
relations to all the rest of a vastly complex brain."  I'd sure love to get
this canonized, somewhere, to see if anyone else would support it.  I'm
very doubtful, but that belief could be falsified.

> only the elemental qualities does.
> This pixel of elemental redness, and the resulting change from redness to
>> greenness, must identity match up with some objective description of the
>> same.
>> It is simply discovering what this identity is, and figuring out how
>> elemental redness can be computationally bound with all the other stuff
>> that would be different, in different brains.
>> My prediction is that we will discover which of all our descriptions of
>> stuff in the brain is a description of redness, We finally know which camp
>> is THE ONE, we finally know the true color properties of things, hard
>> problem solved, we can eff the ineffable, since our terms and properties of
>> our subjective experiences would then be objectively grounded.
> I don't see how you can identify the common element between two
> individuals' red experience when there's no way (that I see) to determine
> whether or when two individuals even have the same red experience. Can you
> explain this process to me?

You identify whatever P1, glutamate, or whatever it is that is the
objective description of a subjective pixel with a redness quality.  Then,
if you see one person representing red light with that, and the other
representing green light with that, you can then say in an objectively
grounded way:

His redness(p1) is like the other's greenness(also p1), which you both call
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