[ExI] e: GPT-4 on its inability to solve the symbol grounding problem

[Brent Allsop]

I believe I've addressed this before.  I'll attempt a repeat at what I
understand, but may not fully understand what Ben is referring to.
The single referent red circle and one blue box is at the elemental level.
The word 'red' can refer to the elemental redness quality.  One to One.
Your red circle linke to myriads of blue circles is at a composite
qualitative level, which, in addition to the elemental redness quality,
could include lots of examples of red things, lots of memories, meanings,
and so on.
All of those blue circles can be fully described with a description of all
elemental things of which they are all composed.



On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 11:53 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On 17/04/2023 17:49, Gordon Swobe wrote:
>
> It is mind-blowing that even after all my attempts to explain Linguistics
> 101, you guys still fail to understand the meaning of the word "referent."
>
>
> Then, please, explain it to us! (using the relevant discipline, i.e.
> neuroscience, not linguistics). Presumably you think linguistics is
> relevant because these systems we're discussing are called "Large Language
> Models", but having 'language' in the name doesn't mean that 'language'
> explains how they work. It's all about signal-processing. Unless you think
> that only brains use signal-processing and not LLMs, or vice-versa.
>
> So try explaining it in terms that we will understand. Presumably my
> diagram from several posts ago:
>
> *'Grounded' concept*
>
> *(The block is a 'real-world' object. What this actually means, I have no
> good idea)*
>
>
> is inaccurate, and not what you mean at all, so maybe you can explain it
> in terms of the other diagram:
>
> *Linked concept (very simplified)*
>
> *(The blue ovals are myriad other concepts, memories, sensory inputs,
> tokens, etc.)*
> * Of course, a real diagram of the links would be so dense as to be
> unreadable. The other ovals would be linked to each other as well as to the
> centra oval, and it would be 3D with links extending out, as far as the
> sensory organs, which transduce specific aspects of the 'real world' such
> as temperature changes, specific frequencies of sound, etc.*
>
> Or, if not, then at least in terms of the things that we know to be true
> about the brain. i.e., nothing in the brain has access to anything except
> signals from other parts of the brain, and signals from the sense organs,
> coded in the 'language' our brains use: spike trains. I'm sure you know
> what spike trains are (giving a stern warning look at Spike here, finger to
> lips).
>
> And, again if you disagree with the statement above, please give your
> reasons for disagreeing.
>
> It's no good complaining that people don't understand you if you can't
> explain what you mean.
>
> Ben
>
>
>
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