[ExI] My guesses about GPTs consciousness

Mon Apr 17 19:33:02 UTC 2023

Dreams are very weird and do say a lot about our consciousness. In fact,
there is a lot in dreams that dismantle some of the notions Brent has about
qualia.
Anyway, talking about strange experiences in dreams, if I don't drink in a
very reliable way I dream about ghosts. I don't believe in ghosts but my
dreaming brain is afraid of them even because they become real in my
dreams. I also noticed that these dreams are always associated with me
having a dry mouth or being very thirsty. Somehow my brain tells me I need
a drink and shows me ghosts or when my brain and body need water it dreams
of ghosts. It is very weird. Also sometimes, when I need to wake up from a
particularly horrible dream I kill myself. It is like my brain knows it is
a dream and a good way to escape is to die in the dream. One time I
actually used a very loud old fashion alarm clock to wake up and it worked.
Any time I fly I looked down, and I'm in awe and happy that finally, I
master the magic of self-flight and then I invariably realize it is to nice
and against the laws of physics so it is a dream and then I wake up.
Dreams are really interesting.
Giovanni

On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 12:23 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
> Interesting.  Yes.  I have dabbled a bit.  And Steven Lehar
> <https://canonizer.com/topic/81-Mind-Experts/4-Steven-Lehar> learned much
> of what he knows about consciousness through detailed documentation of
> psychedelic trips.  He wrote a book on it.
>
> And yes, your brain can render any knowledge it wants into the spirit
> bubble world in our head
> <https://canonizer.com/videos/consciousness?chapter=the+world+in+your+head&format=360>,
> like being in two places at once, see stuff behind you, your knowledge of
> your spirit traveling through knowledge of solid walls, the ego knowledge
> of yourself ceasing to exist, (first person experiences no longer possible)
> becoming one one with your knowledge of the world.
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 1:09 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> As a postscript to this I would say that if you are interested in
>> consciousness and neuroscience, you should really, really try
>> psychedelics.  A curious mind that never tries them is falling far short of
>> the perceptual knowledge you could have access to.
>>
>> They are serious though and you should do them in a safe, clean, and
>> pleasant setting--perhaps an old house with incandescent lights, dark wood
>> floors, lots of throw pillows, with a strong and happy mindset, and
>> probably an experienced tripper guru.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:54 PM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have experienced things in dreams I have not in real life, like being
>>> in two places at once.  The flavors were nothing really new though.
>>>
>>> One thing I noticed after doing a lot of psychedelics, especially DMT.
>>> When you smoke it in particular, the ascent of psychedelia is very fast.
>>> It starts as brighter colors, then becomes extremely high pattern
>>> recognition (visual part is most obvious) with subjective fractal
>>> hallucinations pouring off of the objectively present patterns (imagine
>>> grokking the fluid dynamics of a cloud, plus hallucinating mandelbrots at
>>> the edges.)
>>>
>>> Then, suddenly, the fractals coalesce into figures and scenes overlaid
>>> with more fractals, and then clear figures and scenes, without the typical
>>> psychedelia.  Crisp edges.  The patterns become the patterns of a story,
>>> instead or a shape.
>>>
>>> After doing this a lot I also started to notice being in this
>>> between-geometry-and-story state when I was in hypnagogia.
>>>
>>> From this personal experience I think that the geometry is essentially
>>> the building blocks of more clear perception.  At some point in the trip
>>> there is so much information that it turns into a story instead of a
>>> relatively simpler geometric pattern.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:48 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Very interesting.
>>>> Was there any qualities you had never experienced before?  Or was it
>>>> just flavors made of light qualities, and other remapping of qualities you
>>>> were already familiar with?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 12:30 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just strange things like sparkly pastries and layered milkshakes,
>>>>> those are some I remember.   Used to lucid dream a lot so one time I
>>>>> remember I tried eating some salsa and I woke myself up and spit it onto my
>>>>> bed in the hypnagogic state.   At the time I felt I was so close to
>>>>> actually bringing something back from the dream world, lol
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:00 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm jealous.  I've never experienced taste and smell in dreams.
>>>>>> I want to know what "fanciful' is like so I can know the meaning of
>>>>>> that term in that context.
>>>>>> I bet someday we'll know which of all our objective descriptions of
>>>>>> stuff in the brain, is a description of that kind of subjective 'fanciful'.
>>>>>> And I'm looking forward to being able to say: "oh THAT is what that
>>>>>> kind of fanciful taste is like."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 11:21 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wtf I have all my senses in my dreams....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I was a kid I used to try and eat in dreams specifically cuz
>>>>>>> the food was always so fanciful
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 16, 2023, 5:23 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
>>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 16/04/2023 19:07, bill w wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One cannot sense without consciousness  Jason
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh yes we can - dreams.  Visual, mostly, rarely auditory, never
>>>>>>>> touch, smell or taste (unless some chat member reports any of those. )
>>>>>>>>  bill w
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can definitely report that my dreams sometimes incorporate sound
>>>>>>>> (playing a musical instrument) and touch (we won't go there). Don't recall
>>>>>>>> taste or smell, though. Proprioception as well, though, very commonly (as
>>>>>>>> in, almost always. Many of my dreams are about movement - running, cycling,
>>>>>>>> skating, flying, as well as less common and physically impossible ways of
>>>>>>>> moving - and I can feel the motion, not just see it).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The question of whether we are conscious while dreaming is an
>>>>>>>> interesting one, though. Lucid dreaming - are we really conscious then? And
>>>>>>>> I sometimes have what I'd call 'semi-lucid' dreams where I can control
>>>>>>>> events, or at least influence them, but am not as conscious as in a lucid
>>>>>>>> dream.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ben
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