[ExI] My guesses about GPTs consciousness

Mon Apr 17 19:17:01 UTC 2023

Interesting.  Yes.  I have dabbled a bit.  And Steven Lehar
<https://canonizer.com/topic/81-Mind-Experts/4-Steven-Lehar> learned much
of what he knows about consciousness through detailed documentation of
psychedelic trips.  He wrote a book on it.

And yes, your brain can render any knowledge it wants into the spirit
bubble world in our head
<https://canonizer.com/videos/consciousness?chapter=the+world+in+your+head&format=360>,
like being in two places at once, see stuff behind you, your knowledge of
your spirit traveling through knowledge of solid walls, the ego knowledge
of yourself ceasing to exist, (first person experiences no longer possible)
becoming one one with your knowledge of the world.

On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 1:09 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> As a postscript to this I would say that if you are interested in
> consciousness and neuroscience, you should really, really try
> psychedelics.  A curious mind that never tries them is falling far short of
> the perceptual knowledge you could have access to.
>
> They are serious though and you should do them in a safe, clean, and
> pleasant setting--perhaps an old house with incandescent lights, dark wood
> floors, lots of throw pillows, with a strong and happy mindset, and
> probably an experienced tripper guru.
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:54 PM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I have experienced things in dreams I have not in real life, like being
>> in two places at once.  The flavors were nothing really new though.
>>
>> One thing I noticed after doing a lot of psychedelics, especially DMT.
>> When you smoke it in particular, the ascent of psychedelia is very fast.
>> It starts as brighter colors, then becomes extremely high pattern
>> recognition (visual part is most obvious) with subjective fractal
>> hallucinations pouring off of the objectively present patterns (imagine
>> grokking the fluid dynamics of a cloud, plus hallucinating mandelbrots at
>> the edges.)
>>
>> Then, suddenly, the fractals coalesce into figures and scenes overlaid
>> with more fractals, and then clear figures and scenes, without the typical
>> psychedelia.  Crisp edges.  The patterns become the patterns of a story,
>> instead or a shape.
>>
>> After doing this a lot I also started to notice being in this
>> between-geometry-and-story state when I was in hypnagogia.
>>
>> From this personal experience I think that the geometry is essentially
>> the building blocks of more clear perception.  At some point in the trip
>> there is so much information that it turns into a story instead of a
>> relatively simpler geometric pattern.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:48 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Very interesting.
>>> Was there any qualities you had never experienced before?  Or was it
>>> just flavors made of light qualities, and other remapping of qualities you
>>> were already familiar with?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 12:30 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just strange things like sparkly pastries and layered milkshakes, those
>>>> are some I remember.   Used to lucid dream a lot so one time I remember I
>>>> tried eating some salsa and I woke myself up and spit it onto my bed in the
>>>> hypnagogic state.   At the time I felt I was so close to actually bringing
>>>> something back from the dream world, lol
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:00 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm jealous.  I've never experienced taste and smell in dreams.
>>>>> I want to know what "fanciful' is like so I can know the meaning of
>>>>> that term in that context.
>>>>> I bet someday we'll know which of all our objective descriptions of
>>>>> stuff in the brain, is a description of that kind of subjective 'fanciful'.
>>>>> And I'm looking forward to being able to say: "oh THAT is what that
>>>>> kind of fanciful taste is like."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 11:21 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wtf I have all my senses in my dreams....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I was a kid I used to try and eat in dreams specifically cuz the
>>>>>> food was always so fanciful
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 16, 2023, 5:23 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 16/04/2023 19:07, bill w wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One cannot sense without consciousness  Jason
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh yes we can - dreams.  Visual, mostly, rarely auditory, never
>>>>>>> touch, smell or taste (unless some chat member reports any of those. )
>>>>>>>  bill w
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can definitely report that my dreams sometimes incorporate sound
>>>>>>> (playing a musical instrument) and touch (we won't go there). Don't recall
>>>>>>> taste or smell, though. Proprioception as well, though, very commonly (as
>>>>>>> in, almost always. Many of my dreams are about movement - running, cycling,
>>>>>>> skating, flying, as well as less common and physically impossible ways of
>>>>>>> moving - and I can feel the motion, not just see it).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The question of whether we are conscious while dreaming is an
>>>>>>> interesting one, though. Lucid dreaming - are we really conscious then? And
>>>>>>> I sometimes have what I'd call 'semi-lucid' dreams where I can control
>>>>>>> events, or at least influence them, but am not as conscious as in a lucid
>>>>>>> dream.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ben
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