[ExI] Symbol Grounding

[Giovanni Santostasi]

Hi Brent,
There is something very wrong with your drawing. The arrow from Complex
Perception Process (CPP) to the 3D model doesn't exist. I think that is the
key to all our clashes (not just mine but almost everybody else on the
list), also you don't need the language centers or just make it a bubble in
the conceptual models' cloud. Language is just another conceptual model
among the others. What you call a 3D model composed of subjective qualities
is identical to that cloud of "conceptual models". I know it sounds weird
to you but what you see with your eyes is in a sense a model, it is not
made with words but images and colors and so on but that is the vocabulary
of the visual system. It is another form of language. It is a model because
it is re-created using some algorithm that interprets and manipulates the
information received, it filters what is not needed and makes
interpolations to make sense of the data.
Giovanni




On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 2:01 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
> Your model is based on a Naive Realism model.
>
> Here is a representational model which will actually be possible without
> magic:
>
> [image: image.png]
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 5:19 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Here is a diagram (because I'm generally a visual person, and can usually
>> understand things if I can draw them):
>>
>>
>>
>> A very general, high-level and crude diagram that tries to illustrate the
>> concept of 'symbol grounding' as I understand it, from these discussions
>> we've been having. Plus an arrow representing output of speech or text, or
>> anything really, that the system is capable of outputting (obviously
>> there's a hell of a lot going on in every single element in the diagram,
>> that I'm ignoring for simplicity's sake).
>>
>> As far as I understand, the 'symbol grounding' occurs between the
>> conceptual models (built up from sensory inputs and memories) and the
>> language centres (containing linguistic 'tokens', or symbols), as we've
>> previously agreed.
>>
>> There are two arrows here because the models can be based on or include
>> data from the language centres as well as from the environment. The symbols
>> (tokens) in the language centres represent, and are 'grounded in', the
>> conceptual models (these are the object and action models I've discussed
>> earlier, and likely other types of models, too, and would include a
>> 'self-model' if the system has one, linked to the token "I").
>>
>> The sensory inputs are of various modalities like vision, sounds, text,
>> and so-on (whatever the system's sensors are capable of perceiving and
>> encoding), and of course will be processed in a variety of ways to extract
>> 'features' and combine them in various ways, etc.
>>
>> I didn't include something to represent Memory, to keep things as simple
>> as possible.
>>
>> So, could we say that this diagram illustrates, in a very general way,
>> what's going on in a human? in a LLM AI? Both? Neither?
>>
>> Would you say it's broadly correct, or missing something, or incorrect in
>> another way?
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
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