[ExI] Symbol Grounding

Ben Zaiboc ben at zaiboc.net
Sun Apr 23 08:37:29 UTC 2023

On 22/04/2023 23:36, Giovanni Santostasi wrote:
> you don't need the language centers or just make it a bubble in the 
> conceptual models' cloud. Language is just another conceptual model 
> among the others.

Thanks, Giovanni.

I kept the 'language centres' separate mainly for the purposes of the 
discussion with Gordon, as he gives special importance to 'language' 
(human language), while ignoring (or at least refusing to engage with 
the fact) that the brain uses an internal language.

Yes, they use more conceptual models and could belong in with the rest, 
but one thing that distinguishes them is that they have dedicated brain 
areas, whereas the other models that I'm talking about probably don't 
(or if they do, they haven't been discovered yet, afaik)

I expect that the models I'm talking about (the bubbles) come and go, as 
needed, in a mental workspace that's used for many things.

That's why I used a box to represent the language centres instead of a 
bubble (using the language of metaphor, suggesting that boxes are more 
permanent things, and bubbles are ephemeral).

As with all things biological, it's is going to be more complicated than 
that of course. I expect workspace bubble models are important in human 
language processing as well, and the language-dedicated brain areas may 
also use temporary models that come and go...

Actually it would be interesting to take brain scans of people who are 
learning a foreign language, at different stages of their learning.

As for Brent's strawberry fetish etc., I've given up trying to make 
sense of his impenetrable jargon. Plenty of people have explained to 
him, at painful length, "doing what you've always done will get you what 
you've always got", but he just won't listen.

But, yes, his diagram is the same as mine, just with a couple of details 
pulled out, and focusing only on vision. The eyes and 'perception 
process' are one of my arrows from the left, the 3D strawberry model 
should be one of the bubbles. What 'composed of subjective qualities' 
actually means is anybody's guess really. I strongly suspect it doesn't 
mean anything at all.

Actually, the arrows going one-way only from the strawberry model to the 
other models may be a clue. That is obviously wrong, as the conceptual 
models have lots of links between them, feedback loops, connections to 
memory, etc.


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