[ExI] Symbol Grounding

Mon Apr 24 06:28:48 UTC 2023

Brent,
What you are asking about falsified or demonstrated has already been done
several times here. We gave you equivalent examples (that you ignored) like
my example about aerodynamics.
It is not just an isolated example, the majority of scientific discovery is
about finding what is essential about a phenomenon and reproducing these
essential characteristics. Aerodynamics is essential for flight, feathers
are not.
But if you want specific examples:
Artificial Visual Cortex studies:
https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.18240
Mimicking brain-like functionality with an electronic device is an
essential step toward the design of future technologies including
artificial visual and memory applications. Here, a proof-of-concept
all-oxide-based (NiO/TiO2) highly transparent (54%) heterostructure is
proposed and demonstrated, which mimics the primitive functions of the
visual cortex
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/adma.201903095
Meta’s AI researchers create artificial visual cortex for robots to operate
by seeing
https://siliconangle.com/2023/03/31/metas-ai-researchers-created-artificial-visual-cortex-robots-operate-seeing/
https://www.iit.edu/news/brain-was-just-successfully-implanted-wireless-artificial-vision-system
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Artificial-vision-for-the-blind-by-connecting-a-to-Dobelle/177793b5b3f7d8610b159e7da4a85013db60acdd
https://europe.ophthalmologytimes.com/view/device-renews-hope-artificial-vision

There are dozens of studies like these where they show that understanding
function is what matters and not damned glutamate or whatever you think is
necessary for vision or color recognition. It is not all turtles down at
all, it stops at 2-3-5-7 = red, 2-1-1-2 -4 = green (of course is more
complicated than that but it is just patterns of activation, that is
basically code). We told you so.
What else do you need in terms of demonstration?
Giovanni

On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 6:27 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 4:43 PM Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Quoting Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>:
>>
>> > This is so frustrating.  I'm asking a simple, elementary school level
>> > question.
>>
>> So you think that the Hard Problem of Consciousness reframed as a your
>> so-called "Colorness Problem" is an elementary school level question?
>> Then maybe you should quit bugging us about it and seek the advice of
>> elementary school children.
>>
>
> I am working with those people that do get it.  Now, more than 40 of them,
> including leaders in the field like Steven Lehar
> <https://canonizer.com/topic/81-Mind-Experts/4-Steven-Lehar>, are
> supporting the camp that says so.  Even Dennett's Predictive Bayesian
> coding Theory
> <https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/21-Dennett-s-PBC-Theory>
> is a supporting sub camp, demonstrating the progress we are making.
> Gordon, would you be willing to support RQT
> <https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/6-Representational-Qualia>?
> The elementary school kids are telling us, plug things into the brain, till
> you find what it is that has a redness quality.  So, we are collecting the
> signature, and once we get enough, experimentalists will finally get the
> message and then start doing this, and eventually be able to demonstrate to
> everyone what it is that has a  [image: red_border.png] property.  To my
> understanding, that is how science works.
>
>
> The reason I am bugging you functionalists is because I desperately want
> to understand how everyone thinks about consciousness, especially the
> leading popular consensus functionalism camps. Giovani seems to be saying
> that in this functionalist view, there is no such thing as color qualities,
> but to me, saying there is no color in the world is just insane.  You seem
> to be at least saying something better than that, but as far as I can see,
> your answers are just more interpretations of interpretations, no place is
> there any grounding.   You did get close to a grounded answer when I asked
> how the word 'red' can be associated with [image: green_border.png].
> Your reply was  "at some point during the chatbot's training the English
> word red was associated with *the picture in question*."   But "*the
> picture in question*" could be referring to at least 4 different things.
> It could be associated with the LEDs emitting the 500 nm light.  It could
> be the 500 nm light, which "the picture" is emitting, or it could be
> associated with your knowledge of   [image: green_border.png]. in which
> case it would have the same quality as your knowledge of that, or it could
> be associated with someone that was engineered to be your inverted
> knowledge (has a red / green signal inverter between its retina and optic
> nerve), in which case, it would be like your knowledge of [image:
> red_border.png].  So, if that is indeed your answer, which one of these 4
> things are you referring to?  Is it something else?
>
>
> You guys accuse me of being non scientific.  But all I want to know is how
> would a functionalist demonstrate, or falsify functionalist claims about
> color qualities, precisely because I want to be scientific.  Do you believe
> you have explained how functionalism predictions about color qualities
> could be falsified or demonstrated, within functionalist doctrines?   If
> so, I haven't seen it yet.  So please help, as all I see is you guys
> saying, over and over again, that you don't need to provide an unambiguous
> way to demonstrate what it is that has this quality: [image:
> red_border.png], or even worse functionalism is predicting that color
> doesn't exist.  As if saying things like that, over and over again, makes
> them true?
>
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