[ExI] Ben Goertzel on Large Language Models

Fri Apr 28 23:31:33 UTC 2023

Hi Jason,
Did you see some of the latest Wolfram videos on physics emerging from his
graph models? He has a very interesting idea on how consciousness and
individuation gives rise to the dynamics of the laws of physics from the
set of all possibilities.
I think he is into something here.
Giovanni

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 3:22 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 12:46 AM Giovanni Santostasi via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> I used to believe that consciousness is fundamental because of my
>> interest in Eastern philosophy. But it is a lie.
>>
>
> I would say that consciousness is not the most fundamental aspect of
> reality (I would put Truth in that category, and from truth, next we get
> numbers and their mathematical relations). From mathematical relations we
> get computations, and from computations, consciousness.
>
> So then there is a real sense in which consciousness is more fundamental
> than physics. Apparent physical universes, and their laws and properties
> emerge from the psychology of Turing machines. Or put another way: physical
> reality is what platonic conscious computations dream.
>
> This is a form of idealism, but one structured by mathematical laws and
> the probability distribution as defined by algorithmic information theory,
> and an idealism that defines the relation between the three modes of
> existence: the mathematical, material, and mental realities.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>> Giovanni
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 9:34 PM Gordon Swobe via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Quite by accident, I happened upon this quote of Erwin Schrodinger this
>>> evening.
>>>
>>> "Consciousness cannot be explained in physical terms. Because
>>> consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be explained in any
>>> other terms."
>>>
>>> That is actually what I also hold to be true about consciousness, though
>>> not necessarily for reasons related to quantum mechanics or eastern
>>> philosophy. (Schrodinger is said to have been influenced by
>>> eastern philosophy).
>>>
>>> -gts
>>>
>>> -gts
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 8:43 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Gordon Swobe <gordon.swobe at gmail.com>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] Ben Goertzel on Large Language Models
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:51 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It looks to me like GPT has intelligence without consciousness.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >…That is how it looks to me also, and to GPT-4. When asked if
>>>> consciousness and intelligence are separable, it replied that the question
>>>> is difficult to answer with biological systems, but...
>>>>
>>>> >…"From the perspective of artificial intelligence, it is possible to
>>>> create systems with high levels of intelligence that lack consciousness. AI
>>>> models like mine can learn from vast amounts of data and perform complex
>>>> tasks, but we do not have subjective experiences or self-awareness." - GPT4
>>>>
>>>> -gts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This leads to a disturbing thought: intelligence without consciousness
>>>> becomes Eliezer’s unfriendly AI.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Since I am on the topic of disturbing thoughts, I had an idea today as
>>>> I was in Costco going past the item shown below.  Compare now to fifty
>>>> years ago.  Some of us here may remember spring of 1973.  I do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Imagine it is 1973 and suddenly all networked computers stopped working
>>>> or began working incorrectly, such as being completely choked with spam.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most of the things we had in 1973 would still work, as we were not
>>>> heavily dependent on the internet then.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now imagine that happening today all networked computers quit or are
>>>> overwhelmed so they don’t work right.  It really isn’t as simple as
>>>> returning to 1973-level technology.  We cannot do that, for we have long
>>>> since abandoned the necessary skillsets and infrastructure needed to
>>>> sustain society at that tech level.  If you think about the most immediate
>>>> consequences, they are horrifying.  It wouldn’t take long for all the food
>>>> to be gone and no more would be coming in, for the networks needed for
>>>> transportation infrastructure would all be down.  Most of the population in
>>>> the tech advanced civilizations would perish from starvation or violence in
>>>> the resulting panicked chaos.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are those who would see the destruction of a large fraction of
>>>> humanity as a good thing: radical greens for instance.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is what caused me to comment that humans using AI for bad ends is
>>>> a more immediate existential risk than is unfriendly AI.  This unfriendly
>>>> AI would not necessarily wish to destroy humanity, but an unfriendly BI
>>>> will use AI, which would remorselessly participate in any nefarious plot it
>>>> was asked to do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> spike
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