[ExI] Ben Goertzel on Large Language Models

Sat Apr 29 00:53:43 UTC 2023

Brent,
This video has been linked already. Can you please go to minute 19:34 and
see the examples where the AI is fed only blood flow activity in the brain
and reconstruct the image the person sees? No glutamate is involved! Only
patterns! We already discussed this but can you see how all the relevant
info is only patterns (and in fact, it is represented by the weights and
connections in the net)?
What else needs to be added?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoVJKj8lcNQ&t=855s
Giovanni

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 4:57 PM Giovanni Santostasi <gsantostasi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Jason,
> And that is the same idea of the ancient Shivaists, in particular the
> Kashmir version, with their concepts of Spanda and Lila, the vibrations
> that give rise to the moment of awareness and the cosmic play where the
> undifferentiated awareness individuates and gives rise to creation by
> forgetting or reducing its infinite nature.
> Giovanni
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 4:46 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:32 PM Giovanni Santostasi <gsantostasi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jason,
>>> Did you see some of the latest Wolfram videos on physics emerging from
>>> his graph models? He has a very interesting idea on how consciousness and
>>> individuation gives rise to the dynamics of the laws of physics from the
>>> set of all possibilities.
>>> I think he is into something here.
>>> Giovanni
>>>
>>
>> I have. I think his article on the Ruliad is on the right path. It is
>> converging to ideas of Bruno Marchal, Russell Standish, and Markus Muller,
>> whose ideas show we can recover much of physical law from first principles
>> regarding observation, but I don't think Wolfram is aware of this work. I
>> sent him an email last year but haven't yet received a reply. Below is what
>> I wrote to him:
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> Dear Stephen Wolfram,
>>
>> I recently came across your article "Why Does the Universe Exist? Some
>> Perspectives from Our Physics Project" and found it to be both fascinating
>> and expertly explained.
>>
>> I had written an article that reached nearly identical conclusions ("Why
>> does anything exist?").
>>
>> The reason I am writing to you, and the reason I share my article with
>> you is because I think you might be quite interested in the citations and
>> references it contains to other research and researchers who have been
>> operating along these same lines of reasoning. Among them are:
>>
>> Bruno Marchal in “The computationalist reformulation of the mind-body
>> problem” (2013)
>> This, along with his 1989 PhD thesis showed how if all computations
>> exist, we must derive the laws of physics from the structure of all
>> computations, and showed how a quantum logic emerges from such a structure.
>> Markus Müller in “Law without law: from observer states to physics via
>> algorithmic information theory” (2020)
>> Derives many properties of physics, such as time, a big bang, simple
>> computable probabilistic laws, from algorithmic information theory applied
>> to all computations.
>> Russell Standish in “Theory of Nothing” (2006)
>> Derives aspects of quantum mechanics, including the Shrodinger equation,
>> from very simple assumptions concerning observation within an infinite
>> ensemble
>>
>> I hope that these references may be of use to you and to your Physics
>> Project.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Jason Resch
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> I completed my article about a month before Wolfram's article came out,
>> otherwise I would have cited his work extensively.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 3:22 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 12:46 AM Giovanni Santostasi via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I used to believe that consciousness is fundamental because of my
>>>>> interest in Eastern philosophy. But it is a lie.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would say that consciousness is not the most fundamental aspect of
>>>> reality (I would put Truth in that category, and from truth, next we get
>>>> numbers and their mathematical relations). From mathematical relations we
>>>> get computations, and from computations, consciousness.
>>>>
>>>> So then there is a real sense in which consciousness is more
>>>> fundamental than physics. Apparent physical universes, and their laws and
>>>> properties emerge from the psychology of Turing machines. Or put another
>>>> way: physical reality is what platonic conscious computations dream.
>>>>
>>>> This is a form of idealism, but one structured by mathematical laws and
>>>> the probability distribution as defined by algorithmic information theory,
>>>> and an idealism that defines the relation between the three modes of
>>>> existence: the mathematical, material, and mental realities.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Giovanni
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 9:34 PM Gordon Swobe via extropy-chat <
>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Quite by accident, I happened upon this quote of Erwin Schrodinger
>>>>>> this evening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Consciousness cannot be explained in physical terms. Because
>>>>>> consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be explained in any
>>>>>> other terms."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is actually what I also hold to be true about consciousness,
>>>>>> though not necessarily for reasons related to quantum mechanics or eastern
>>>>>> philosophy. (Schrodinger is said to have been influenced by
>>>>>> eastern philosophy).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -gts
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -gts
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 8:43 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* Gordon Swobe <gordon.swobe at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] Ben Goertzel on Large Language Models
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:51 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
>>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It looks to me like GPT has intelligence without consciousness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >…That is how it looks to me also, and to GPT-4. When asked if
>>>>>>> consciousness and intelligence are separable, it replied that the question
>>>>>>> is difficult to answer with biological systems, but...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >…"From the perspective of artificial intelligence, it is possible
>>>>>>> to create systems with high levels of intelligence that lack consciousness.
>>>>>>> AI models like mine can learn from vast amounts of data and perform complex
>>>>>>> tasks, but we do not have subjective experiences or self-awareness." - GPT4
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -gts
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This leads to a disturbing thought: intelligence without
>>>>>>> consciousness becomes Eliezer’s unfriendly AI.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since I am on the topic of disturbing thoughts, I had an idea today
>>>>>>> as I was in Costco going past the item shown below.  Compare now to fifty
>>>>>>> years ago.  Some of us here may remember spring of 1973.  I do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine it is 1973 and suddenly all networked computers stopped
>>>>>>> working or began working incorrectly, such as being completely choked with
>>>>>>> spam.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of the things we had in 1973 would still work, as we were not
>>>>>>> heavily dependent on the internet then.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now imagine that happening today all networked computers quit or are
>>>>>>> overwhelmed so they don’t work right.  It really isn’t as simple as
>>>>>>> returning to 1973-level technology.  We cannot do that, for we have long
>>>>>>> since abandoned the necessary skillsets and infrastructure needed to
>>>>>>> sustain society at that tech level.  If you think about the most immediate
>>>>>>> consequences, they are horrifying.  It wouldn’t take long for all the food
>>>>>>> to be gone and no more would be coming in, for the networks needed for
>>>>>>> transportation infrastructure would all be down.  Most of the population in
>>>>>>> the tech advanced civilizations would perish from starvation or violence in
>>>>>>> the resulting panicked chaos.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are those who would see the destruction of a large fraction of
>>>>>>> humanity as a good thing: radical greens for instance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is what caused me to comment that humans using AI for bad ends
>>>>>>> is a more immediate existential risk than is unfriendly AI.  This
>>>>>>> unfriendly AI would not necessarily wish to destroy humanity, but an
>>>>>>> unfriendly BI will use AI, which would remorselessly participate in any
>>>>>>> nefarious plot it was asked to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> spike
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> extropy-chat mailing list
>>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>
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