[ExI] Zombies

Jason Resch jasonresch at gmail.com
Sun Apr 30 13:24:51 UTC 2023

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 5:23 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On 29/04/2023 23:35, Gordon Swobe wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 3:31 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> So you believe them when they claim to not be conscious, but don't believe
>> them when they don't.
>> And you expect us to take your reports of what they say as evidence for
>> whether they are conscious or not.
>> Can you see a problem with that?
> As I explained in another message, (to you, I think), I first entered
> these discussions a couple of months ago prepared to argue that people were
> being deceived by the LLMs; that ChatGPT is lying when it says it has
> consciousness and genuine emotions and so on.
> I had no personal experience with LLMs but a friend had literally fallen
> in love with one, which I found more than a little alarming.
> As it turns out, GPT4-4 is saying everything I have always believed would
> be true of such applications as LLMs. I’ve been saying it for decades.
> Good grief, man, are you incapable of just answering a question?
> I suppose I'd better take your reply as a "No", you don't see a problem
> with your double-standard approach to this issue.
> Please feel free to correct me, and change your (implied) answer to "Yes".
> And when you say "prepared to argue...", I think you mean "determined to
> argue...". But predetermined prejudicial opinions are no basis for a
> rational argument, they are a good basis for a food-fight, though, which is
> what we have here. One which you started, and seem determined to finish.
> You may not have noticed (I suspect not), but most of us here (myself
> included) have no dogmatic insistence on whether or not these AI systems
> can or can't have consciousness, or understand what they are saying. We are
> willing to listen to, and be guided by, the available evidence, and change
> our minds accordingly. It's an attitude that underlies something called the
> scientific method. Give it a try, you might be surprised by how effective
> it is. But it comes with a warning: It may take you out of your comfort
> zone, which can be, well, uncomfortable. I suspect this is why it's not
> more popular, despite how very effective it is.
> Personally, I think a little discomfort is worth it for the better
> results, when trying to figure out how the world works, but that's just me.

Well said Ben. Your advice brought to mind this quote:

"If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he
will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties."
-- Francis Bacon


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