[ExI] Zombies

Ben Zaiboc ben at zaiboc.net
Sun Apr 30 09:21:49 UTC 2023

On 29/04/2023 23:35, Gordon Swobe wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 3:31 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat 
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>     So you believe them when they claim to not be conscious, but don't
>     believe them when they don't.
>     And you expect us to take your reports of what they say as
>     evidence for whether they are conscious or not.
>     Can you see a problem with that?
> As I explained in another message, (to you, I think), I first entered 
> these discussions a couple of months ago prepared to argue that people 
> were being deceived by the LLMs; that ChatGPT is lying when it says it 
> has consciousness and genuine emotions and so on.
> I had no personal experience with LLMs but a friend had literally 
> fallen in love with one, which I found more than a little alarming.
> As it turns out, GPT4-4 is saying everything I have always believed 
> would be true of such applications as LLMs. I’ve been saying it for 
> decades.

Good grief, man, are you incapable of just answering a question?

I suppose I'd better take your reply as a "No", you don't see a problem 
with your double-standard approach to this issue.

Please feel free to correct me, and change your (implied) answer to "Yes".

And when you say "prepared to argue...", I think you mean "determined to 
argue...". But predetermined prejudicial opinions are no basis for a 
rational argument, they are a good basis for a food-fight, though, which 
is what we have here. One which you started, and seem determined to finish.

You may not have noticed (I suspect not), but most of us here (myself 
included) have no dogmatic insistence on whether or not these AI systems 
can or can't have consciousness, or understand what they are saying. We 
are willing to listen to, and be guided by, the available evidence, and 
change our minds accordingly. It's an attitude that underlies something 
called the scientific method. Give it a try, you might be surprised by 
how effective it is. But it comes with a warning: It may take you out of 
your comfort zone, which can be, well, uncomfortable. I suspect this is 
why it's not more popular, despite how very effective it is.

Personally, I think a little discomfort is worth it for the better 
results, when trying to figure out how the world works, but that's just me.

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