[ExI] [Extropolis] New project for EFF (maybe)

[Keith Henson]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 3:31 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> I am not aware of any industry, save certain government institutions where ethics (or lack thereof) demonstrably impacts performance, where there is both a large labor force and enough workers who care about ethics to meaningfully enforce ethics.

The military is a government institution where people are *required*
to disobey certain orders.  But you are correct.

Perhaps the AI business makes this the time to pass laws protecting
programmers who are ordered to do unethical work.

> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 3:26 PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> What I am proposing here is a cultural shift.
>>
>> I suspect programmers feel guilty about writing code to make things fail.
>>
>> If a substantial number of them said this is unethical and we won't do
>> it, chances are the companies would quit asking.
>>
>> Companies are concerned about their reputation and being known as a
>> company that forces programmers to do something considered unethical
>> is not going to enhance their reputation.
>>
>> It's a long shot I know, but might be worth talking up.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:45 PM efc via extropolis
>> <extropolis at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Excellent idea Keith.
>> >
>> > Having a masters degree in philosophy, I'm a bit "damaged" so I always
>> > make it a point to try and have a discussion with my students about the
>> > ethics of technology and make them think about the world and future they
>> > want to help shape through their technical work in the future.
>> >
>> > I think this is a conversation that should start early, and that
>> > technologists should have often, but it is not enough.
>> >
>> > As long as you are dependent on a salary, and the ask seems relatively
>> > small and insignificant, it is all too easy to choose the path of least
>> > resistance and then justify it to yourself or just forget about it.
>> >
>> > Perhaps with some kind of organization helping out in some way, it might
>> > make that choice a little bit easier on individuals who feel that they
>> > have no other choice due to financial reasons.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Daniel
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 14 Dec 2023, Keith Henson wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Cindy, John
>> > >
>> > > My response to an article on slashdot about hackers that removed the
>> > > code that bricked trains.
>> > >
>> > > If there were social support, programmers could just refuse on ethical
>> > > grounds to write the code that bricks a train or anything else.
>> > >
>> > > Long ago when I was faced with something similar, I was just fired.
>> > > If there was an organization that made such behavior public in a way
>> > > that seriously hurt the reputation of a company, they might think
>> > > twice about such abuse.
>> > >
>> > > Would we have to start a new organization for programmers or is there
>> > > an existing one that could take on this function?  The EFF comes to
>> > > mind, but open to other suggestions.  I will ask the EFF if they would
>> > > consider this.
>> > >
>> > > Keith
>> > >
>> > > Keith
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > --
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