[ExI] vaccines again

spike at rainier66.com spike at rainier66.com
Wed Jan 4 23:08:23 UTC 2023

-----Original Message-----
From: John Klos <john at ziaspace.com> 
Subject: Re: [ExI] vaccines again

>> ...and simply imagine that capitalism == good, government == bad...
>>... Capitalism and government can both be good.  Government should not 
> compete against capital.  It isn't authorized to do that.

>...Government isn't authorized to do that by whom? Who authorizes

The constitution.  Your question is most disturbing.

>...I'd counter by saying that capitalism isn't authorized to destroy my
planet and poison my air and water. But nobody cares about authorization...

That comment is far more disturbing that the first.
>>...  This doesn't make high speed rail either good or bad.

>...Do you wish us to pretend that high speed rail is bad because capitalism
in the US couldn't make it work? (you answered a different question)...

I didn't say high speed rail is good or bad John.  In California, capitalism
provided profitable alternatives.  So capital didn't come.  Capitalism is
good.  Capitalism makes good things happen because people with capital make
things happen.  Government is here to support them, not compete against

>...Yes, we know you value business more than you value people...

Business is people.  Business is what people do.

>... "people with capital to invest" isn't a level of understanding...

I understand it.  People who have capital to invest are people too.

>...Might? You're really, really stretching to try to make your point. You
REALLY want to suggest that there's a possibility they MIGHT NOT use
tickets? Seriously?

BART doesn't have people on board to check or to make anyone get off at any
point.  Homeless people jump over the turnstiles, which is equivalent to
theft under 1000 dollars, which is functionally legal.  If a high speed
train hires people to throw off freeloaders, they could reboard the next

>...Disease vector is a real concern, but it's a bit rich coming from
someone who seems anti-vaccine and does research shopping...

I am not anti-vaccine.  I took two of them myself.  I am against vaccine
mandates.  That one is likely to come back to haunt us bigtime.  If that
study is correct and there is a net harm to the young, oh dear that will be
a big problem.

>..Suggesting communicating instead of traveling is a completely orthogonal
discussion. The same could be said for airplanes. It's not relevant to this

The reason it is relevant because it would be introducing yet another
transportation mode which is likely to fail.

>...You want us to believe that mass transit and high speed rail is a
failure even though it works all throughout the world...

It didn't here.  Investors didn't come.  The state had a vote on it in 2008,
then after it passed they immediately doubled the price tag.  They didn't
offer a redo.  That means it was a bait and switch.

>...You want us to believe that it can and should only work and only be the
result of capitalism, not government...

Ours is a capitalist government.  Government his here to support capitalism,
not compete against it.

>...Really, you lack understanding of one fundamental idea: governments
exist for the people...

How well I know.  The document which defines the role of government starts
with the words "We the people..."

>... Ours doesn't as much as it should, as it has been corrupted by

Capitalism doesn't corrupt.  It cleanses.  

>...but obviously the world would absolutely suck if literally everything
were capitalism with no regulation...

Capitalism and regulation are compatible.

>...Or explain to me how the world would be a better place if we privatized

The constitution provides for the common defense.

>...privatized sewers, privatized water systems...

State and local governments are established to make these public, in
accordance with capitalism.

>... allowe monopolies, et cetera. Are there examples in the history of
humankind that shows this to be true?

Capitalism promotes competition and market forces, which break down

>...If you're going to assert that governments should stay out of

In the case we are discussing, government has already failed where private
enterprise succeeded.  The high speed rail was voted upon and passed based
on a price which was unrealistic.  Then a vote redo was not offered.  We
should have one now, even after all the investment has bought us nothing.
This site says 10.3 billion has already been spent:  


That means nearly 100 billion dollars remain in the price.  The people
should get a new chance to vote on this to see if the people still want it
14 years later. 

That article also claims that 222 land parcels remain unpurchased, which is
something I wasn't aware of.  That means the people who own that land
realize its enormous value.  If they who own that land are environmentalists
or if they are NIMBYs or they are Native American preservationists, the
people who own that land can block the entire project indefinitely, holding
out for absurd sums of money.  I predict the people who own that land will
block that rail project.


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