[ExI] Zombies are logically inconsistent: a proof

efc at swisscows.email efc at swisscows.email
Wed May 17 16:11:39 UTC 2023


On Wed, 17 May 2023, Jason Resch via extropy-chat wrote:

>       This is what I thought. Can someone explain to me how believers in
>       zombies motivate that other people are not zombies?
> 
> Brent would say there's some special molecule in our brains. Searle would say there's some unique causal power in our biology.
> Chalmers would say there's some extra property in our universe which enables consciousnesses to accompany certain causal
> organizations (which is not logically necessary in other conceivable universes). Dualists would say God puts a soul into each human
> (but they never say why God could not put a soul into a machine).

I see. But this is both good and bad. Show me the molecule and I'll
revise my beliefs. ;) Lacking a molecule or some extra property that can
be clearly shown, I cannot accept that view. But I think we're ending up
in the "redness territory". ;)

>       It seems to me the only non-zombie there can ever be with that point of
>       view, is oneself.
> 
> Yes I think they accept this. If it's logically possible for a physically identical being to behave in all manners in the same ways,
> and not be conscious, then there can be no test to determine if another is conscious.

Well, if they accept this, they are being consistent at least, and
that's a benefit. However, viewing the rest of the world as zombies does
seem a bit limiting to me. On the other hand I guess that belief could
be held together with some kind of view that it is a pragmatically
useful concept to believe or act as if the zombies are not zombies.

> Moreover, there can be no test anyone could perform to know they're not themselves a zombie (this point is often overlooked by
> believers in zombies but it follows from their belief that qualia have no effects in the world).

Ah yes, and this ties into the qualia as well, of course.

> 
> Dennett realizes this second point which is why he says that if zombies were possible then we're all zombies.
>

Wise man! =)

Best regards, 
Daniel




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