[ExI] The Problem With Counterfeit People

[Jason Resch]

Ancient Rome had no police to my knowledge and it had a million people.

Jason

On Sun, May 21, 2023, 4:57 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Hello Bill,
>
> On Sat, 20 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:
>
> > Could it happen that going private could result in a country-wide system
> of four lane highways?  Or nuclear missiles?  Or aircraft
> > carriers?  I can see private forces useful in very small situations but
> not in national interest ones.  bill w
>
> I admit that this is one weakness in my position. Since it has never
> been tried at full scale in the modern world, there's no way to know.
> However, I'd argue that a benefit of a private world is that the
> incentives to create nuclear bombs and aircraft carriers are way
> smaller, so I'd speculate that in a private world, no one would be
> foolish enough to waste money on that.
>
> Best regards,
> Daniel
>
> >
> > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 4:10 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >
> >       On Sat, 20 May 2023, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat wrote:
> >
> >       > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:37 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >       >       On Sat, 20 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via
> extropy-chat wrote:
> >       >       > We have at least one member who is opposed to taxes.  I
> asked him how we would pay for police and fire and
> >       streets etc.
> >       >       and never got
> >       >       > an answer.  What is the answer, you think?  I am a
> classic liberal and libertarian. bill w
> >       >
> >       >       I think those are services that can be bought from private
> companies if
> >       >       you need them. Alternatively, they could be bundled into
> the service
> >       >       package of insurance companies.
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > It's been tried many times, and it doesn't work.  Turns out, you
> can buy bodyguards that way but not police.  The
> >       difference is that
> >
> >       Oh, so _you're_ the authority here? ;) I can for sure tell you
> about
> >       neigbourhood cooperation to reduce crime, of the old west, old
> iceland,
> >       gated communities, security companies, private investigators and
> >       countless other situations, times and dates where it was tried and
> it
> >       did work.
> >
> >       So you will have to do way better than that to convince me.
> >
> >       > police will - at least, often enough - enforce justice even when
> it is against the immediate interests of those who pay
> >       them.  Think
> >       > of part of the service as keeping the funders honest.
> >
> >       My experience of state run police is extremely shitty. They don't
> care
> >       about anything, they don't perform, and the only thing they do in
> my
> >       experience is to harass honest citizens, while arresting and
> punishing a
> >       symbolic amount of small crooks. So no thank you, I'd rather buy
> the
> >       services of a private security company, because in my life, the
> track
> >       record of police is just ridiculous.
> >
> >       > Those who think that such anticorruption services are merely
> nice to have, and not absolutely essential to the
> >       functioning of any
> >       > modern nation state, need only look at the Russian armed forces
> and how their invasion of Ukraine has fared.  There are
> >       many factors
> >
> >       Oh, but russia is an example of why the state should not exist.
> Once a
> >       bad guy hijacks the public sector, all that power causes immense
> >       destruction. Much better to have the ultimate decentralization of
> power
> >       and a profit motive to keep people in check. Capitalism is
> engineered in
> >       such a way that the one who helps the most people makes the most
> profit.
> >       No other system cooperates so well with human natures.
> >
> >       So yes, ukraine is horrible, and russia to, and guess what's, prime
> >       example of the state and its corruption and why libertarianism is
> the
> >       only way.
> >
> >       > Likewise, private fire protection tends to protect your
> properties but not your neighbors' who aren't paying them -
> >       which means your
> >       > property burns down and there's nothing they can do when your
> neighbor's property burns down, which could have been
> >       prevented had
> >       > they stopped it when it was a small fire on your non-paying
> neighbor's property.  Private streets are a textbook
> >       tragedy of the
> >
> >       Contract law and negotiation my friend. Yes, it might not work
> >       perfectly, but neither does the state. I think the entity of the
> state
> >       has a record in killing and deaths caused compared with companies
> and
> >       markets.
> >
> >       > commons: private streets don't allow for good commerce, while
> public streets make everyone relatively richer.  Hard as
> >       it can be to
> >
> >       This is just a statement and not a proof. I state the opposite and
> point
> >       to the fact that I've done plenty of business in private locations
> and
> >       it worked out beautifully.
> >
> >       > This isn't theory.  This is hard historical fact.  There is no
> "the true form hasn't been tried yet".  This is what
> >       happens when it
> >       > is tried, every time, enough to show that it is the true form.
> It has been done to the death of millions.
> >
> >       I disagree. Some times it has worked, and sometimes not. Sadly the
> >       experiments never ran to conclusion since a maffia with monopoly on
> >       violence ended it called "the state". But, I'll give you this
> much, the
> >       state is a powerful entity and crowds out all competition to the
> >       detriment of everyone.
> >
> >       Fortunately in modern society, there are cracks in the system where
> >       people at an indiviual level can escape a lot of ills of the state.
> >
> >       Best regards,
> >       Daniel
> >       _______________________________________________
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> >       extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> >       http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
> >
> >
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