[ExI] Culture war and universal values in the age of spiritual machines
Jason Resch
jasonresch at gmail.com
Mon Nov 27 10:48:07 UTC 2023
On Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 5:11 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> Hello Jason,
>
> That sounds like a tough moral to live up to. What does he say about the
> fact that we by design never will have that information?
>
He acknowledges that it is impossible to live up to or achieve, but lays
out the argument showing that this is what morality concerns, and
acknowledging this provides both a justification for why we should all try
to act morally in the first place (why we should try to be good), as well
as a foundation for agreement on what should be the most moral action (what
is the most good), even if that's not knowable, we would at least all agree
if we had perfect knowledge of the situation. So we can build and justify
heuristics on this common foundation, now that we have one.
> Does he advocate for best effort? If so, it seems like the power of the
> principle to guide people is not the strongest.
>
He saw all previous attempts at justifying morality (answering: for what
reason ought we be good) as wanting. The goal of this paper is to answer
the question of why (rather than the how).
Jason
>
>
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2023, Jason Resch wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 26, 2023, 3:42 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > I think that thought has occupied quite a few philosopher. I think
> the
> > fashionable thing in philosophy is the "platinum rule". But I
> could be
> > wrong.
> >
> >
> > I think this is an inter and novel take:
> >
> > https://philarchive.org/rec/ARNMAW
> >
> > Zuboff argues that the most correct action is what one would do if one
> has perfect and complete knowledge, and this knowledge would
> > contain the knowledge of what it's like to be all the affected
> individual beings points of view, hence morality would then be
> > conceived as a reconciliation of all desires of all conscious beings.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Daniel
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 26 Nov 2023, William Flynn Wallace wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I'm not a fan of the concept "justice" without the machinery
> underneath
> > > defined. Otherwise it is just an empty term. So that's why I'm
> wondering
> > > about collapsing some of them into the others. daniel
> > > This sounds like a multiple regression type problem. Why not
> let some AI parse this one? Maybe everything on the list
> > will collapse
> > > into the Golden Rule. bill w
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Daniel
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 12:53 PM <efc at swisscows.email> wrote:
> > > Another interesting question is if some of those values
> can be collapsed
> > > into others.
> > >
> > > I'm not a fan of the concept "justice" without the
> machinery underneath
> > > defined. Otherwise it is just an empty term. So that's why
> I'm wondering
> > > about collapsing some of them into the others.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Daniel
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 26 Nov 2023, William Flynn Wallace via
> extropy-chat wrote:
> > >
> > > > Saving this! THis is great - thanks Stuart.
> > > >
> > > > Commentary by S. Freud:
> > > >
> > > > The law to love your enemies is the most impossible
> thing to follow in any religion.
> > > >
> > > > bill w
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 12:13 PM Jason Resch via
> extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > > > This is wonderful. Thank you for sharing it.
> > > > Jason
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 12:41 PM Stuart LaForge via
> extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > > > I asked ChatGPT what set of moral values lay at
> the intersection of the
> > > > sets of all values espoused by the major religions
> of the world with
> > > > explicit references to their sacred texts. This
> was its answer and its
> > > > answer gave me hope that AI can help end the
> culture wars. So here are
> > > > the Five Moral Imperatives shared by the world's
> major religions:
> > > >
> > > > The Golden Rule and Reciprocity:
> > > >
> > > > Christianity: "So in everything, do to others what
> you would have them
> > > > do to you, for this sums up the Law and the
> Prophets." (Matthew 7:12,
> > > > New Testament)
> > > > Judaism: "What is hateful to you, do not do to
> your fellow man. This is
> > > > the law: all the rest is commentary." (Talmud,
> Shabbat 31a)
> > > > Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he
> wishes for his brother
> > > > what he wishes for himself." (Hadith of Prophet
> Muhammad, Bukhari and
> > > > Muslim)
> > > > Hinduism: "This is the sum of duty: do not do to
> others what would cause
> > > > pain if done to you." (Mahabharata 5:1517)
> > > > Buddhism: "Hurt not others in ways that you
> yourself would find
> > > > hurtful." (Udana-Varga 5.18)
> > > > Sikhism: "As you deem yourself, deem others as
> well; only then you shall
> > > > become a partner in heaven." (Guru Granth Sahib,
> Ang 1299)
> > > >
> > > > Compassion and Love:
> > > >
> > > > Christianity: "A new command I give you: Love one
> another. As I have
> > > > loved you, so you must love one another." (John
> 13:34, New Testament)
> > > > Judaism: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
> (Leviticus 19:18, Torah)
> > > > Islam: "And lower to them the wing of humility out
> of mercy and say, 'My
> > > > Lord, have mercy upon them as they brought me up
> [when I was] small.'"
> > > > (Quran 17:24)
> > > > Hinduism: "The whole world is full of God's glory;
> serve all beings as
> > > > God." (Ramayana, Yuddha Kanda 115.33)
> > > > Buddhism: "Radiate boundless love towards the
> entire world." (Buddha,
> > > > Sutta Nipata 149-150)
> > > > Sikhism: "One who recognizes the One Lord among
> all beings does not talk
> > > > of ego." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 99)
> > > >
> > > > Justice and Fairness:
> > > >
> > > > Christianity: "Do not pervert justice; do not show
> partiality to the
> > > > poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your
> neighbor fairly."
> > > > (Leviticus 19:15, Torah)
> > > > Judaism: "Justice, justice shall you pursue."
> (Deuteronomy 16:20, Torah)
> > > > Islam: "O you who have believed, be persistently
> standing firm in
> > > > justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be
> against yourselves or
> > > > parents and relatives." (Quran 4:135)
> > > > Hinduism: "Justice, when it is corrupted,
> destroys; but when it is
> > > > upheld, it upholds the world." (Mahabharata
> 12.131.6)
> > > > Buddhism: "Conquer the angry man by love; conquer
> the ill-natured man by
> > > > goodness; conquer the miser with generosity;
> conquer the liar with
> > > > truth." (Dhammapada 223)
> > > > Sikhism: "Justice is the mint, courage the brave
> coin. When the coin of
> > > > justice is made, it is tested by courage." (Guru
> Granth Sahib, Ang 1088)
> > > >
> > > > Charity and Generosity:
> > > >
> > > > Christianity: "Sell your possessions and give to
> the poor. Provide
> > > > purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a
> treasure in heaven that
> > > > will never fail." (Luke 12:33, New Testament)
> > > > Judaism: "Do not be hard-hearted or tight-fisted
> toward your poor
> > > > brother." (Deuteronomy 15:7, Torah)
> > > > Islam: "The example of those who spend their
> wealth in the Way of Allah
> > > > is like that of a grain that sprouts seven ears,
> and in every ear there
> > > > are a hundred grains." (Quran 2:261)
> > > > Hinduism: "The hands that help are holier than the
> lips that pray."
> > > > (Yajur Veda)
> > > > Buddhism: "If beings knew, as I know, the result
> of giving and sharing,
> > > > they would not eat without having given."
> (Itivuttaka 26)
> > > > Sikhism: "Serve the True Guru, and you shall
> obtain the fruits of your
> > > > heart's desires." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1299)
> > > >
> > > > Truth and Honesty:
> > > >
> > > > Christianity: "Therefore each of you must put off
> falsehood and speak
> > > > truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all
> members of one body."
> > > > (Ephesians 4:25, New Testament)
> > > > Judaism: "You shall not bear false witness against
> your neighbor."
> > > > (Exodus 20:16, Torah)
> > > > Islam: "O you who have believed, fear Allah and be
> with those who are
> > > > true." (Quran 9:119)
> > > > Hinduism: "The truth which satisfies the heart is
> true." (Mahabharata
> > > > 5:124.9)
> > > > Buddhism: "In speech that is gentle, truthful, and
> beneficial, one
> > > > should address others." (Anguttara Nikaya 10.176)
> > > > Sikhism: "Truth is the trade of the Guru's
> children; practice truth in
> > > > your mind." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 471)
> > > >
> > > > As a human being, I am deeply moved by this and
> hopeful for a bright
> > > > future where men and machines explore the galaxy
> together.
> > > >
> > > > Stuart LaForge
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
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