[ExI] Culture war and universal values in the age of spiritual machines
Jason Resch
jasonresch at gmail.com
Mon Nov 27 10:53:06 UTC 2023
Here is an except from his paper, read by Zuboff. It is interesting that he
titles this as applicable to the question of whether AI will be moral:
https://youtu.be/Yy3SKed25eM
Jason
On Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 5:48 AM Jason Resch <jasonresch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 5:11 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello Jason,
>>
>> That sounds like a tough moral to live up to. What does he say about the
>> fact that we by design never will have that information?
>>
>
> He acknowledges that it is impossible to live up to or achieve, but lays
> out the argument showing that this is what morality concerns, and
> acknowledging this provides both a justification for why we should all try
> to act morally in the first place (why we should try to be good), as well
> as a foundation for agreement on what should be the most moral action (what
> is the most good), even if that's not knowable, we would at least all agree
> if we had perfect knowledge of the situation. So we can build and justify
> heuristics on this common foundation, now that we have one.
>
>
>
>
>> Does he advocate for best effort? If so, it seems like the power of the
>> principle to guide people is not the strongest.
>>
>
>
> He saw all previous attempts at justifying morality (answering: for what
> reason ought we be good) as wanting. The goal of this paper is to answer
> the question of why (rather than the how).
>
> Jason
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2023, Jason Resch wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Nov 26, 2023, 3:42 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> > I think that thought has occupied quite a few philosopher. I
>> think the
>> > fashionable thing in philosophy is the "platinum rule". But I
>> could be
>> > wrong.
>> >
>> >
>> > I think this is an inter and novel take:
>> >
>> > https://philarchive.org/rec/ARNMAW
>> >
>> > Zuboff argues that the most correct action is what one would do if one
>> has perfect and complete knowledge, and this knowledge would
>> > contain the knowledge of what it's like to be all the affected
>> individual beings points of view, hence morality would then be
>> > conceived as a reconciliation of all desires of all conscious beings.
>> >
>> > Jason
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Daniel
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, 26 Nov 2023, William Flynn Wallace wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > I'm not a fan of the concept "justice" without the machinery
>> underneath
>> > > defined. Otherwise it is just an empty term. So that's why I'm
>> wondering
>> > > about collapsing some of them into the others. daniel
>> > > This sounds like a multiple regression type problem. Why not
>> let some AI parse this one? Maybe everything on the list
>> > will collapse
>> > > into the Golden Rule. bill w
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > > Daniel
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 12:53 PM <efc at swisscows.email> wrote:
>> > > Another interesting question is if some of those values
>> can be collapsed
>> > > into others.
>> > >
>> > > I'm not a fan of the concept "justice" without the
>> machinery underneath
>> > > defined. Otherwise it is just an empty term. So that's
>> why I'm wondering
>> > > about collapsing some of them into the others.
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > > Daniel
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, 26 Nov 2023, William Flynn Wallace via
>> extropy-chat wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Saving this! THis is great - thanks Stuart.
>> > > >
>> > > > Commentary by S. Freud:
>> > > >
>> > > > The law to love your enemies is the most impossible
>> thing to follow in any religion.
>> > > >
>> > > > bill w
>> > > >
>> > > > On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 12:13 PM Jason Resch via
>> extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> > > > This is wonderful. Thank you for sharing it.
>> > > > Jason
>> > > >
>> > > > On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 12:41 PM Stuart LaForge via
>> extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> > > > I asked ChatGPT what set of moral values lay at
>> the intersection of the
>> > > > sets of all values espoused by the major
>> religions of the world with
>> > > > explicit references to their sacred texts. This
>> was its answer and its
>> > > > answer gave me hope that AI can help end the
>> culture wars. So here are
>> > > > the Five Moral Imperatives shared by the world's
>> major religions:
>> > > >
>> > > > The Golden Rule and Reciprocity:
>> > > >
>> > > > Christianity: "So in everything, do to others
>> what you would have them
>> > > > do to you, for this sums up the Law and the
>> Prophets." (Matthew 7:12,
>> > > > New Testament)
>> > > > Judaism: "What is hateful to you, do not do to
>> your fellow man. This is
>> > > > the law: all the rest is commentary." (Talmud,
>> Shabbat 31a)
>> > > > Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he
>> wishes for his brother
>> > > > what he wishes for himself." (Hadith of Prophet
>> Muhammad, Bukhari and
>> > > > Muslim)
>> > > > Hinduism: "This is the sum of duty: do not do to
>> others what would cause
>> > > > pain if done to you." (Mahabharata 5:1517)
>> > > > Buddhism: "Hurt not others in ways that you
>> yourself would find
>> > > > hurtful." (Udana-Varga 5.18)
>> > > > Sikhism: "As you deem yourself, deem others as
>> well; only then you shall
>> > > > become a partner in heaven." (Guru Granth Sahib,
>> Ang 1299)
>> > > >
>> > > > Compassion and Love:
>> > > >
>> > > > Christianity: "A new command I give you: Love one
>> another. As I have
>> > > > loved you, so you must love one another." (John
>> 13:34, New Testament)
>> > > > Judaism: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
>> (Leviticus 19:18, Torah)
>> > > > Islam: "And lower to them the wing of humility
>> out of mercy and say, 'My
>> > > > Lord, have mercy upon them as they brought me up
>> [when I was] small.'"
>> > > > (Quran 17:24)
>> > > > Hinduism: "The whole world is full of God's
>> glory; serve all beings as
>> > > > God." (Ramayana, Yuddha Kanda 115.33)
>> > > > Buddhism: "Radiate boundless love towards the
>> entire world." (Buddha,
>> > > > Sutta Nipata 149-150)
>> > > > Sikhism: "One who recognizes the One Lord among
>> all beings does not talk
>> > > > of ego." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 99)
>> > > >
>> > > > Justice and Fairness:
>> > > >
>> > > > Christianity: "Do not pervert justice; do not
>> show partiality to the
>> > > > poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your
>> neighbor fairly."
>> > > > (Leviticus 19:15, Torah)
>> > > > Judaism: "Justice, justice shall you pursue."
>> (Deuteronomy 16:20, Torah)
>> > > > Islam: "O you who have believed, be persistently
>> standing firm in
>> > > > justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be
>> against yourselves or
>> > > > parents and relatives." (Quran 4:135)
>> > > > Hinduism: "Justice, when it is corrupted,
>> destroys; but when it is
>> > > > upheld, it upholds the world." (Mahabharata
>> 12.131.6)
>> > > > Buddhism: "Conquer the angry man by love; conquer
>> the ill-natured man by
>> > > > goodness; conquer the miser with generosity;
>> conquer the liar with
>> > > > truth." (Dhammapada 223)
>> > > > Sikhism: "Justice is the mint, courage the brave
>> coin. When the coin of
>> > > > justice is made, it is tested by courage." (Guru
>> Granth Sahib, Ang 1088)
>> > > >
>> > > > Charity and Generosity:
>> > > >
>> > > > Christianity: "Sell your possessions and give to
>> the poor. Provide
>> > > > purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a
>> treasure in heaven that
>> > > > will never fail." (Luke 12:33, New Testament)
>> > > > Judaism: "Do not be hard-hearted or tight-fisted
>> toward your poor
>> > > > brother." (Deuteronomy 15:7, Torah)
>> > > > Islam: "The example of those who spend their
>> wealth in the Way of Allah
>> > > > is like that of a grain that sprouts seven ears,
>> and in every ear there
>> > > > are a hundred grains." (Quran 2:261)
>> > > > Hinduism: "The hands that help are holier than
>> the lips that pray."
>> > > > (Yajur Veda)
>> > > > Buddhism: "If beings knew, as I know, the result
>> of giving and sharing,
>> > > > they would not eat without having given."
>> (Itivuttaka 26)
>> > > > Sikhism: "Serve the True Guru, and you shall
>> obtain the fruits of your
>> > > > heart's desires." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1299)
>> > > >
>> > > > Truth and Honesty:
>> > > >
>> > > > Christianity: "Therefore each of you must put off
>> falsehood and speak
>> > > > truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all
>> members of one body."
>> > > > (Ephesians 4:25, New Testament)
>> > > > Judaism: "You shall not bear false witness
>> against your neighbor."
>> > > > (Exodus 20:16, Torah)
>> > > > Islam: "O you who have believed, fear Allah and
>> be with those who are
>> > > > true." (Quran 9:119)
>> > > > Hinduism: "The truth which satisfies the heart is
>> true." (Mahabharata
>> > > > 5:124.9)
>> > > > Buddhism: "In speech that is gentle, truthful,
>> and beneficial, one
>> > > > should address others." (Anguttara Nikaya 10.176)
>> > > > Sikhism: "Truth is the trade of the Guru's
>> children; practice truth in
>> > > > your mind." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 471)
>> > > >
>> > > > As a human being, I am deeply moved by this and
>> hopeful for a bright
>> > > > future where men and machines explore the galaxy
>> together.
>> > > >
>> > > > Stuart LaForge
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > extropy-chat mailing list
>> > > > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>> > > >
>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>> > > >
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>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
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