[ExI] after upload, what?

Tue Feb 13 18:40:19 UTC 2024

I wonder what the cost would be, per ounce, of sending food to Mars?   bill
w

On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 12:31 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
> I can't understand why someone would think people could only ever have one
> copy of themselves, once creating and binding multiple copies becomes
> trivally easy.
>
> And children are more or less copies, already.  What is the difference?  I
> have become my father, more or less.
>
> The reason Elon wants to get to mars is for the same reason.  We need
> multiple copies of humanity.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 12:29 AM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> I kind of suspect that it will be legal to have only one copy at a time
>> active.
>>
>> But who knows?
>>
>> Modifying yourself is probably not a good idea.  Minsky went into some
>> detail, but I don't have time to look it up.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 11:04 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat
>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Who just spools up another?  If all your active copies are subverted,
>> which u believe is the scenario under discussion, you might not have a way
>> out.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 7:33 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It can defend itself if it is instantiated into multiple
>> computationally bound brains.
>> >> If one of them accidentally falls into the sun, or gets hacked by some
>> incompetent neural engineer, you just spin up another, and computationally
>> bind to it to be sure it is the same,
>> >> all the phenomenal data restored.
>> >>
>> >> You just need lots of cheap copies.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 6:50 PM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Once you're uploaded, /someone/ will be able to change every
>> parameter of your subjective conscious experience.
>> >>>
>> >>> If they're spectacularly nice, they may even give you permission to
>> do so.
>> >>>
>> >>> But if they withold that permission, there will be absolutely nothing
>> you can do about it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Furthermore, they will retain the option to modify you in any way
>> they see fit. With or without your permission.
>> >>>
>> >>> Data can't defend itself.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 5:38 PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This topic has been discussed for a long time, Drexler wrote about it
>> >>>> and so did Marvin Minsky.  I think I wrote about but can't find
>> >>>> anything with the phrase "without getting lost."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best wishes,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Keith
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 4:01 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat
>> >>>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Yea, your talking consciousness or phenomenal (or "spiritual" if
>> you will) engineering.
>> >>>> > And you'll be able to do all these kinds of things you guys are
>> talking about.
>> >>>> > Right now we don't have true free will, we get joy from things
>> like having sex.  And we need to try to resist those hard wired
>> temptations, when sex isn't appropriate.
>> >>>> > But true free will is having the ability to cut those puppet
>> strings given to us by evolution (or God?) and wire joys like that up to
>> what we want to do.
>> >>>> > Emagine when you need to take the garbage out, and you can wire it
>> up to be orgasmic. ;)
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Oh, and the current "world in your head" this is our knowledge of
>> what we see, is only about a mile or so in diameter, and very low
>> resolution, and composed of only a few color qualities.  Emagine
>> discovering thousands more color qualities, increasing the resolution, and
>> extents of that bubble world by many orders of magnitude.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > And of course, there is using neural ponytails to "computationally
>> bind multiple bubble worlds together in multiple brains.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 100 years from now, once we start doing phenomenal engineering
>> like this humanity, as we know it, will cease to exist.
>> >>>> > Intelligence will be a very different thing.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Our team, including Steven Lehar, are working on more videos on
>> just this topic.  Describing in detail what uploading could be engineered
>> to be like, and all that.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 3:19 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> On 09/02/2024 22:48, bill w wrote:
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> I am assuming that an uploaded person can change the programming
>> - the parameters.  So how can that work?
>> >>>> >> Suppose one could change the enjoyment of chocolate to the most
>> intense
>> >>>> >> pleasure possible - like dumping a ton of dopamine into a brain.
>> What
>> >>>> >> would happen?  A biological body would adapt and inhibit extreme
>> >>>> >> reactions and probably develop an addiction and tolerance.  Not
>> in an
>> >>>> >> upload. You could presumably make every pleasure as intense as
>> >>>> >> possible.
>> >>>> >> If you read the news and there was a disaster you could turn off
>> any
>> >>>> >> negative emotions and just note that news cognitively - no
>> empathy at
>> >>>> >> all. No feeling bad.
>> >>>> >> Is that what people want?  bill w
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> Ask the opposite question: Suppose an uploaded person could not
>> change things like their level of enjoyment (or its opposite) of specific
>> things, and they couldn't modulate their emotional responses. Would that be
>> what people want? Being stuck with the way you were as a biological brain?
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> I envisage something like an 'emotional control panel' that
>> allows you to change your emotional states, with the ability to create a
>> whole bunch of macros that could, for instance, record the previous
>> settings and revert to them when needed, so you could try out different
>> settings and have them return to 'normal' after a set period of time, for
>> example. This would enable you to safely experiment with changing things,
>> and decide what you want to be like without risking diving down a rabbit
>> hole with no way out. There is tons of potential with that kind of thing.
>> Naturally, the potential for bad outcomes is huge if you could just change
>> these things at will, so safety mechanisms, automatic backup and restore,
>> that sort of thing, would be needed to make sure you don't accidentally
>> turn into a hopeless junkie, a psychopath, etc., etc., and could make
>> deliberate decisions based on temporary experiments with various states of
>> mind.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> Personally, I think that an upload without these kind of
>> capabilities would be crippled, in terms of disabling a lot of the
>> potential benefits of being an upload.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> In addition, this kind of thing will probably be necessary for
>> taking the next steps beyond just replicating a biological human's
>> mentality. Part of the whole point of uploading would be to enable us to go
>> above and beyond being merely human, if and when we want to.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> Ben
>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>> >
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