[ExI] after upload, what?

Tue Feb 13 18:56:56 UTC 2024

I don't understand why Elon, the person who achieved so much success by
focusing on "first principles" seems to completely miss first principles
when going to space early.

We need to figure out how to modify our bodies, and to do phenomenal
engineering, so we can design bodies that don't need space suits, the kind
that doesn't need exercise while in transit, bodies that don't need the
kind of 'food' you are talking about, and so on.  A body that thrives in
the martian or space environment.  like our probes and robots do.

Once we figure all that out, THEN we can go to mars, right?  Elon seems to
have going to space bass acwards.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 11:41 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I wonder what the cost would be, per ounce, of sending food to Mars?
>  bill w
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 12:31 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> I can't understand why someone would think people could only ever have
>> one copy of themselves, once creating and binding multiple copies becomes
>> trivally easy.
>>
>> And children are more or less copies, already.  What is the difference?
>> I have become my father, more or less.
>>
>> The reason Elon wants to get to mars is for the same reason.  We need
>> multiple copies of humanity.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 12:29 AM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I kind of suspect that it will be legal to have only one copy at a time
>>> active.
>>>
>>> But who knows?
>>>
>>> Modifying yourself is probably not a good idea.  Minsky went into some
>>> detail, but I don't have time to look it up.
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 11:04 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat
>>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Who just spools up another?  If all your active copies are subverted,
>>> which u believe is the scenario under discussion, you might not have a way
>>> out.
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 7:33 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> It can defend itself if it is instantiated into multiple
>>> computationally bound brains.
>>> >> If one of them accidentally falls into the sun, or gets hacked by
>>> some incompetent neural engineer, you just spin up another, and
>>> computationally bind to it to be sure it is the same,
>>> >> all the phenomenal data restored.
>>> >>
>>> >> You just need lots of cheap copies.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 6:50 PM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Once you're uploaded, /someone/ will be able to change every
>>> parameter of your subjective conscious experience.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If they're spectacularly nice, they may even give you permission to
>>> do so.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> But if they withold that permission, there will be absolutely
>>> nothing you can do about it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Furthermore, they will retain the option to modify you in any way
>>> they see fit. With or without your permission.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Data can't defend itself.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 5:38 PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> This topic has been discussed for a long time, Drexler wrote about
>>> it
>>> >>>> and so did Marvin Minsky.  I think I wrote about but can't find
>>> >>>> anything with the phrase "without getting lost."
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Best wishes,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Keith
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 4:01 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat
>>> >>>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Yea, your talking consciousness or phenomenal (or "spiritual" if
>>> you will) engineering.
>>> >>>> > And you'll be able to do all these kinds of things you guys are
>>> talking about.
>>> >>>> > Right now we don't have true free will, we get joy from things
>>> like having sex.  And we need to try to resist those hard wired
>>> temptations, when sex isn't appropriate.
>>> >>>> > But true free will is having the ability to cut those puppet
>>> strings given to us by evolution (or God?) and wire joys like that up to
>>> what we want to do.
>>> >>>> > Emagine when you need to take the garbage out, and you can wire
>>> it up to be orgasmic. ;)
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Oh, and the current "world in your head" this is our knowledge of
>>> what we see, is only about a mile or so in diameter, and very low
>>> resolution, and composed of only a few color qualities.  Emagine
>>> discovering thousands more color qualities, increasing the resolution, and
>>> extents of that bubble world by many orders of magnitude.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > And of course, there is using neural ponytails to
>>> "computationally bind multiple bubble worlds together in multiple brains.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > 100 years from now, once we start doing phenomenal engineering
>>> like this humanity, as we know it, will cease to exist.
>>> >>>> > Intelligence will be a very different thing.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Our team, including Steven Lehar, are working on more videos on
>>> just this topic.  Describing in detail what uploading could be engineered
>>> to be like, and all that.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 3:19 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> On 09/02/2024 22:48, bill w wrote:
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> I am assuming that an uploaded person can change the programming
>>> - the parameters.  So how can that work?
>>> >>>> >> Suppose one could change the enjoyment of chocolate to the most
>>> intense
>>> >>>> >> pleasure possible - like dumping a ton of dopamine into a
>>> brain.  What
>>> >>>> >> would happen?  A biological body would adapt and inhibit extreme
>>> >>>> >> reactions and probably develop an addiction and tolerance.  Not
>>> in an
>>> >>>> >> upload. You could presumably make every pleasure as intense as
>>> >>>> >> possible.
>>> >>>> >> If you read the news and there was a disaster you could turn off
>>> any
>>> >>>> >> negative emotions and just note that news cognitively - no
>>> empathy at
>>> >>>> >> all. No feeling bad.
>>> >>>> >> Is that what people want?  bill w
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> Ask the opposite question: Suppose an uploaded person could not
>>> change things like their level of enjoyment (or its opposite) of specific
>>> things, and they couldn't modulate their emotional responses. Would that be
>>> what people want? Being stuck with the way you were as a biological brain?
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> I envisage something like an 'emotional control panel' that
>>> allows you to change your emotional states, with the ability to create a
>>> whole bunch of macros that could, for instance, record the previous
>>> settings and revert to them when needed, so you could try out different
>>> settings and have them return to 'normal' after a set period of time, for
>>> example. This would enable you to safely experiment with changing things,
>>> and decide what you want to be like without risking diving down a rabbit
>>> hole with no way out. There is tons of potential with that kind of thing.
>>> Naturally, the potential for bad outcomes is huge if you could just change
>>> these things at will, so safety mechanisms, automatic backup and restore,
>>> that sort of thing, would be needed to make sure you don't accidentally
>>> turn into a hopeless junkie, a psychopath, etc., etc., and could make
>>> deliberate decisions based on temporary experiments with various states of
>>> mind.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> Personally, I think that an upload without these kind of
>>> capabilities would be crippled, in terms of disabling a lot of the
>>> potential benefits of being an upload.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> In addition, this kind of thing will probably be necessary for
>>> taking the next steps beyond just replicating a biological human's
>>> mentality. Part of the whole point of uploading would be to enable us to go
>>> above and beyond being merely human, if and when we want to.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> Ben
>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>>> >
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