[ExI] jbrains again, was: RE: Early Archives... Re: Yudkowsky ‘Humanity’s remaining timeline? It looks more like five years than 50’

Thu Feb 22 22:02:18 UTC 2024

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 9:30 AM <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of Keith Henson via extropy-chat
> ...
> >...I do.  About 20 years ago I was bugged by being tagged as the originator of the Jupiter brain.  I found the original post on a floppy and it was from Perry Metzger. I responded by throwing cold water on the idea due to the speed of light making such a brain slower than humans.  Didn't help, still got associated with the silly idea...
>
> Keith I would gladly accept credit for the JBrain idea.

Can't do.  Good idea or bad, the historical record says Perry Metzger
came up with it.

> The speed of light making such a brain slower than humans is to me mostly irrelevant for two reasons.  A JBrain (and an MBrain) would not necessarily function as a single brain but rather more analogous to a community, where the unit analogous to a single brain might be restricted to a trillion nodes which are all located within a few milliseconds of each other.

A mS is 1000 Hz.  Human brains are around 200 Hz.

> The latency would still be longer than a human brain, but what is the hurry?  A JBrain (or an MBrain) wouldn't be subject to our cruel 80 to 100 year span.  If they are slower and it takes 30 years to play a leisurely chess game, well OK then, that isn't a show-stopper.  They have no lunch date or doctor appointment to worry about.
>
> Although I will never claim to be the inventor of the JBrain, I will cheerfully claim to be the guy who recognized the advantage of the JBrain over the MBrain: it gives us a solution to the nagging thermal problem.  A JBrain is less capable, but far less likely to overheat.  After all these years, I still think Robert was wrong on that: there is no magic advanced tech solution to the overheating MBrain problem.  I think that problem is inherent, but wouldn't be difficult to solve for a JBrain.  Our friend the good old Stefan-Boltzmann law will take care of us there, without even active heat control.  I predict that in the long run, the JBrain idea will come back into fashion before the MBrain.

While it depends on what you want to do, I can't think of *any* use
for a JBrain.

> Fun aside for you and all of us Tabby's Star fans: it is clear enough that the periodic dimming isn't an MBrain, but it might be a bunch of JBrains,

The biggest, the 22% dip, is an object over 400 times the area of the
Earth.  Even out at 7 AU, it is intercepting 1.4 million times the
energy used by all of humanity.  The object is colder than it should
be, so they may be using directional radiation.

How many uploaded humans could this thing accommodate?

Keith

> and that would explain why they are clumpy: so they can be closer together, kinda vaguely analogous why there are more big cities in California than there are in Wyoming: latency between JBrains is factor.
>
> Furthermore on that topic... I can easily imagine a group of JBrains figuring out a solution to the thermal problem on MBrains, if such a solution exists.  If it does, it requires a brain way smarter than mine, or use some kind of technology I don't know.
>
> Hey Keith, next time it comes up and someone accuses you of being the JBrain inventor, just say no, my goofball friend spike66 is the father of that silly-ass notion.  {8^D  I will cheerfully accept credit for that.  And will in all honesty and false modesty credit Anders Sandberg with most of that idea.
>
> spike
>
>
>
>
>
> > How to attach it to a modern system? (Not to mention, is bit-rot still
> > "a thing"?)
> >
> > We're always going on here about "loss" when someone dies.  When a
> > list (or big part of it) dies, that can be a major loss too...  Robert
> > Bradbury, Sasha, Zero, Damein, Barbara, Eugene, Waldemar, Greg, Mike,
> > Harvey .......... and what ever happened to EvMick?
>
> I would put the archive up, but it is close to useless.  I don't know why, but a search does not work on it.
>
> I guess it would take about $70k of labor to make it useful.
>
> Keith
>
> > Regards,
> > MB
> >
> > On Thu, February 22, 2024 10:54, Keith Henson via extropy-chat wrote:
> > > The only person who made noise about list privacy in those days was
> > > Perry Metzger and I have email from him asking that the list be made
> > > public.
> > >
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:41 AM Max More via extropy-chat
> > > <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>  I have a lot of the early archives on floppy disks – old folks
> > >> here might recall those non-floppy floppies. (A brief era following
> > >> stone
> > >> tablets.) I think I have maybe everything from 1993-94. Given the
> > >> private nature of the early list, I'm not sure about sharing these
> > >> with those who weren't on the list.
> > >>
> > >> --Max
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> on
> > >> behalf of MB via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2024 8:23 AM
> > >> To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> > >> Cc: MB <mbb386 at main.nc.us>
> > >> Subject: [ExI] Early Archives... Re: Yudkowsky ‘Humanity’s
> > >> remaining timeline? It looks more like five years than 50’
> > >>
> > >> Keith,
> > >>
> > >> It would be a plus to share those archives with someone on the list
> > >> (*not*
> > >> me!) - like John Klos, or spike or ExIMod, someone who will
> > >> preserve them besides you.  Just something to consider.  :)
> > >>
> > >> Be Well!
> > >> Regards,
> > >> MB
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, February 20, 2024 20:50, Keith Henson via extropy-chat wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > PS.  I have the early archives of Extropy Chat, but they are had
> > >> > to access.
> > >> >
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