[ExI] Open Individualism

[William Flynn Wallace]

open individualism - did this idea start from any facts?  I seriously doubt
it.  It sounds like one of those ideas that blow your mind and so are
attractive to people, but have no way of being tested.  Am I right?  Prove
to me that it's not just another goofy idea.  Are we scientists in this
group, or not.  If not, then forget I wrote this.   bill w

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 11:26 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024, 12:10 PM Tara Maya via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> So it's like a "people's republic" where the combination of words
>> actually reverses the meaning of both. Open Individualism" is a philosophy
>> that is the inverse of the Enlightenment's ideal of individualism; in fact,
>> it's quite fine to sacrifice millions of so-called "open individuals" if
>> they are but clonal cells sacrificed by the One Body for the Greater Good.
>>
>
> I am not sure how you get from "all experiences belong to one universal
> person" to justifying the sacrifice of millions. Can you explain what steps
> you took to get there?
>
>
>
>> This is also, in my opinion, not much supported by the evidence of
>> evolution. Consciousness is an evolved trait of individuals to compete for
>> mates and resources with other individuals; cooperation between conscious
>> individuals has to benefit each participant independently. This is very
>> different than the "we all share one mind" philosophy.
>
>
> The belief is the antithesis of evolved behavior and beliefs, which
> prioritize the survival of the self and one's genes above all. I think the
> brain manufactures an ego-centric illusion, which can be suspended through
> meditation, logic, traumatic brain injury, stroke, or drugs, which results
> in "ego death". Belief in this philosophy may be less than ideal for
> prioritizing one's genes over others, but that has no bearing on whether or
> not it is true.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>>
>> It's not that we can connect with others for the greater good... but this
>> is not "natural" or innate, we have to work hard for it.
>>
>> Still, the AI summary is quite helpful, Bilik. (I wasn't sure if you
>> wanted to start a conversation about AI's grasp of philosophy or about the
>> philosophy itself.)
>>
>> Tara Maya
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 4, 2024, at 8:28 AM, BillK via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Let's see what an AI thinks about Open Individualism.
>> > It reminds me of bits of Buddhism that I've heard about.
>> > BillK
>> >
>> > Explain Open Individualism -
>> >
>> > Open individualism is a philosophical position that challenges the
>> > traditional notion of personal identity as being tied to a specific
>> > individual. According to open individualism, there is only one
>> > conscious subject or entity that experiences all individual lives or
>> > perspectives.
>> >
>> > In other words, open individualism posits that all individuals are
>> > fundamentally connected at the level of consciousness. From this
>> > perspective, you and I are not separate individuals with distinct
>> > identities but rather manifestations of the same underlying
>> > consciousness or awareness.
>> >
>> > Open individualism can be contrasted with other theories of personal
>> > identity. For example, closed individualism holds that each person is
>> > a distinct and separate individual with a unique identity that
>> > persists over time. It suggests that personal identity is tied to
>> > specific bodies, minds, or streams of consciousness.
>> >
>> > Open individualism rejects the idea of personal identity as a separate
>> > and isolated entity and instead argues for a more inclusive and
>> > interconnected view of consciousness. Advocates of open individualism
>> > often argue that the boundaries between individuals are illusory and
>> > that the underlying reality is a single, unified consciousness
>> > experiencing itself through different perspectives.
>> >
>> > This perspective raises interesting philosophical questions about the
>> > nature of personal identity, the relationship between individuals, and
>> > the implications for ethics and moral responsibility. It challenges
>> > our intuitive notions of selfhood and invites us to reconsider the
>> > boundaries we typically draw between ourselves and others.
>> > --------------
>> >
>> > Tell me more --
>> >
>> > Certainly! Here are some additional points to delve deeper into the
>> > concept of open individualism:
>> >
>> > 1. Unity of Consciousness: Open individualism posits that there is a
>> > fundamental unity of consciousness that underlies all individual
>> > experiences. It suggests that the sense of self and personal identity
>> > we associate with our individual lives is an illusion, and that at a
>> > deeper level, there is a single consciousness that is shared by all
>> > beings.
>> >
>> > 2. Metaphysical Implications: Open individualism raises metaphysical
>> > questions about the nature of consciousness and its relationship to
>> > the physical world. It challenges the idea that consciousness arises
>> > solely from individual brains or minds and suggests that consciousness
>> > is a fundamental and universal aspect of reality.
>> >
>> > 3. Unity in Diversity: Open individualism views the diversity of human
>> > experiences and perspectives as different expressions of the same
>> > underlying consciousness. It emphasizes the interconnectedness and
>> > interdependence of all individuals, suggesting that our apparent
>> > differences are superficial and that we are ultimately part of a
>> > larger, unified whole.
>> >
>> > 4. Ethical Considerations: The concept of open individualism can have
>> > implications for ethics and moral responsibility. It challenges the
>> > idea of personal identity as the basis for moral distinctions and
>> > calls for a more inclusive and compassionate approach to others. If we
>> > recognize that we are all manifestations of the same consciousness, it
>> > can foster a sense of empathy and interconnectedness that transcends
>> > narrow self-interest.
>> >
>> > 5. Mystical and Spiritual Traditions: The idea of open individualism
>> > shares similarities with certain mystical and spiritual traditions.
>> > Concepts such as nondualism, oneness, and universal consciousness can
>> > be found in various philosophical and religious systems. Open
>> > individualism aligns with the notion that our individual identities
>> > are temporary and illusory, and that a deeper reality connects all
>> > beings.
>> >
>> > It's important to note that open individualism is a philosophical
>> > position that is subject to debate and interpretation. While some find
>> > it intellectually compelling, others may have reservations or
>> > objections. Exploring this concept further can lead to fascinating
>> > discussions about the nature of consciousness, personal identity, and
>> > our place in the world.
>> > ------------------
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>>
>>
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