[ExI] Mind Upload problems

[Keith Henson]

On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 5:35 AM BillK via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Uploaded minds run many times faster than real-world human minds.

They can also run much slower, useful if you are going interstellar.

>  It will be impossible to upload everyone at once. This means that early uploads will have evolved into very different intelligences by the time that later uploads arrive into their world.

I discussed this in The Clinic Seed and in my speculation article
"Transhumanism and the Human Expansion into Space: a Conflict with
Physics". Archived from the original on November 30, 2012.

If we have million to one uploads by mid century, then by the end of
the century those people will have 50 million subjective years.
However, based on Tabby's star, I don't think people will run that
fast.  The faster you urn the smaller any communicating group has to
be due to light speed.  The largest of those structures is 2.5 seconds
across, so they might be running no faster than we do.

> It also emphasises that the first uploads should not have any 'faults' in their mentality, as results could be very unpredictable.

True, but you may be able to restore from backup if something goes wrong.

> This leads to very serious problems, as Claude realised when I asked him.
>
> BillK
>
>
> First I asked - Uploaded minds evolve many times faster. How will later uploads cope with the more advanced uploads?
>
> Claude -
> The scenario you raise highlights one of the major potential challenges and risks associated with the hypothetical technology of mind uploading - the possibility of vastly different rates of advancement and evolution between uploaded minds, leading to significant disparities and challenges for later uploads trying to integrate into a world dominated by more advanced uploaded minds.
>
> If uploaded minds can evolve and improve themselves at a much faster rate than biological human minds, then early uploads would have a significant head start. They may quickly advance to levels of intelligence and capability far beyond those of later uploads who start out at a level closer to an unmodified human mind.
>
> This could create a number of difficulties for later uploads:
>
> 1. Technological and knowledge gaps: Later uploads may find themselves struggling to catch up with the advanced knowledge, skills, and technologies developed by earlier uploads. They may face a steep learning curve and feel constantly behind.
>
> 2. Power imbalances: Earlier uploads may wield significantly more power and influence due to their advanced capabilities. This could create power imbalances and inequalities between different "generations" of uploads.
>
> 3. Difficulty relating and integrating: The experiences, perspectives, and even values of highly advanced uploads may be quite foreign and difficult to relate to for later uploads. This could create barriers to social integration and understanding.
>
> 4. Existential and psychological challenges: Facing a world dominated by superintelligent uploads, later uploads may grapple with feelings of inferiority, alienation, and uncertainty about their place and purpose. It could be highly psychologically challenging.
>
> 5. Dependence and control: If earlier uploads control the key systems and infrastructures of the world, later uploads may find themselves dependent on and potentially controlled by the earlier uploads, with limited autonomy.
>
> To cope with these challenges, later uploads would likely need significant support and resources to help them adapt and integrate. This could include access to accelerated learning tools, mentorship from earlier uploads, protected spaces to develop and grow at their own pace, and efforts to ensure their rights and autonomy are respected.
>
> However, the gulf between early and later uploads may simply be too vast to fully bridge. We may see a fundamental divergence of uploaded minds into different strata based on their time of uploading. Careful governance and efforts to uphold principles of equality would be essential to mitigate some of the worst potential disparities and abuses.
>
> These are complex sociological and philosophical issues that would need to be grappled with carefully. The specific outcomes would depend on how the technology is developed and deployed. But in general, the vastly different rates of advancement possible for digital minds is one of the major reasons why mind uploading would be so transformative and raise profound challenges for society to navigate. Extensive foresight, planning, and ethical safeguards would be needed to try to achieve positive outcomes.
> -----------------------------
>
> Then I followed up with - What happens if the first uploads have mental problems? Can this be avoided?
>
> Claude -
> If the first uploads have mental problems, it could lead to serious negative consequences and risks, especially given the potential for uploaded minds to evolve and become more advanced at a rapid pace. Some potential issues include:
>
> 1. Amplification of mental issues: Mental health problems present in the original biological mind, such as depression, anxiety, or personality disorders, could be amplified in the uploaded state. Without the constraints of biology, these issues might manifest in more extreme and unpredictable ways.
>
> 2. Propagation of problematic traits: If early uploads with mental problems are able to evolve and create copies or variations of themselves, they might spread their problematic traits more widely. This could lead to a proliferation of uploaded minds with serious mental health challenges.
>
> 3. Unintended consequences: The actions and decisions of uploaded minds with mental problems could be erratic, harmful, or misguided. Given their potentially advanced capabilities, this could have far-reaching unintended consequences for digital and real-world systems they interact with.
>
> 4. Difficulty of intervention: Once a mind is uploaded, it may be challenging to intervene or provide effective mental health treatment. Traditional therapeutic approaches may not translate well to a digital substrate, and the autonomy of uploaded minds may need to be respected even if they are behaving problematically.
>
> 5. Societal risks: If early uploaded minds with mental problems are in positions of power or influence, it could pose major societal risks. Their altered decision-making could have negative impacts on a large scale.
>
> To try to avoid these scenarios, a few key steps would be critical:
>
> 1. Rigorous pre-upload screening: Before allowing any mind to be uploaded, extensive psychological evaluation and screening should be conducted to identify any pre-existing mental health issues. Only minds that are deemed psychologically stable and healthy should be approved for uploading.
>
> 2. Ongoing monitoring and support: Even with screening, it's possible for mental health issues to emerge after uploading. There would need to be ongoing monitoring of uploaded minds and robust support systems in place to identify and intervene if problems arise.
>
> 3. Secure containment and testing: Initial uploads should occur in secure, isolated digital environments where their actions can be contained and studied. Extensive testing of their psychological stability and decision-making should be conducted before giving them any access to wider systems.
>
> 4. Governance and regulation: Clear governance frameworks and regulations would be needed to oversee the uploading process and respond to any problematic uploads. This may require the ability to pause, isolate, or even delete uploaded minds if they pose serious threats and can't be rehabilitated.
>
> 5. Advancing digital psychology: Significant research would be needed to better understand the psychological dynamics of uploaded minds and develop effective approaches for digital mental health care. This would be an important foundation for proactively addressing potential mental health issues.
>
> However, even with these precautions, the risk of mental health problems in uploaded minds can't be eliminated entirely. The complexity of the human mind and the radical nature of uploading mean that unexpected psychological issues could still emerge. Monitoring and responding to these issues would need to be an ongoing priority as the technology develops.
>
> The potential for uploaded minds to shape the trajectory of human civilization means that their psychological stability is of paramount importance. Careful screening, oversight, and support would be essential to try to start the uploading process on a positive path. But it remains an open question whether we can fully predict or control the mental states of minds translated to a radically different substrate. Caution and humility are certainly called for.
> -----------------------------
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