[ExI] what's the use?

[Jason Resch]

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024, 10:09 AM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 at 18:52, Jason Resch via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >
> > It's an example of consciousness pursing it's own goals (e.g. seeking
> novel experiences), and suppressing purely evolutionary goals. You can't
> explain bungee jumping in evolutionary terms, but you can when you
> recognize that all value is rooted in states of conscious experience.
> >
> > I think it is useful to recognize as Sperry does here, that even within
> the same system of a human body, there any many distinct systems of
> causality at play, operating simultaneously:
> >
> > "I am going to align myself in a counterstand, along with that
> approximately 0.1 per cent mentalist minority, in support of a hypothetical
> brain model in which consciousness and mental forces generally are given
> their due representation as important features in the chain of control.
> These appear as active operational forces and dynamic properties that
> interact with and upon the physiological machinery. Any model or
> description that leaves out conscious forces, according to this view, is
> bound to be pretty sadly incomplete and unsatisfactory. The conscious mind
> in this scheme, far from being put aside and dispensed with as an
> "inconsequential byproduct," "epiphenomenon," or "inner aspect," as is the
> customary treatment these days, gets located, instead, front and center,
> directly in the midst of the causal interplay of cerebral mechanisms.
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > Jason
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
> Well, I don't want to get into a discussion on the alternative
> theories of consciousness.  :)
> More knowledgeable people than me are still arguing about that.
>

I think you're right we can ignore the issue of consciousness, so long as
we don't lose sight of the fact that there are many (sometimes competing or
contradictory) forces at play:

- Evolutionary forces (wanting to survive and reproduce)
- Psychological forces (seeking pleasure)
- Thought processes (this activity seems risky)
- Chemical forces (hormones, adrenaline, dopamine)



> But bungee jumping seems to be readily explained by inherited
> evolutionary traits.
> Bungee jumping causes the release of adrenaline and other stress
> hormones into our body, as for the "fight or flight" response.

The euphoria experienced after a jump is the reward for being brave
> and relief at surviving a dangerous situation.
>

These reasons seems to fit your question of likiy loud noises, no?

There're plenty of behaviors people do that are evolutionarily-speaking bad
for them (opioids, slot machines, junk food, etc.).

It's because they exert influence over our neural systems, which are far
more complex than our genetic systems. Genes (at 750 MB) can't prepare us
for every situation we might face in the environment, which is why we need
neurology with an complexity of around (8,000 TB). The former can't specify
the latter, and so there is room for environmental things that can corrupt
our neurology at the expense of the genetic goals of survival and
reproduction.

Jason


> There is also social status benefit in demonstrating courage and
> physical fitness to other members of the tribe.
> (Though this may be reduced by having to be pushed off the platform
> and screaming in terror all the way down).  :)
>
> On consciousness, I tend to go along with the idea that consciousness
> is mostly a story-generating system, rather than a causal system.
> i.e. unconscious processes are doing most of the work and the
> reasons we give for our decisions are often created after the fact,
> rather than being the actual drivers of the decision.
> But as I said, this is still an area of much dispute. :)
>
> BillK
>
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