[ExI] [Extropolis] Re: Musk set up 100,000 Nvidia H200 GPUs in 19 days - Nvidia says ​it normally takes 4 years

[Keith Henson]

On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 10:25 PM Will Steinberg
<steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But what we are doing is trying to explain why people like Trump, and I am saying that your hypothesis is insufficient to explain his popularity.  It’s certainly part of it, but I don’t think it’s all of it.

If you have a more accurate way to account for the MAGA/Trump support
being concentrated in the economically depressed areas of the country
I will certainly be interested.  Trump is in my opinion just an
example of a class.  I am sure you can fill in some of the others.
The interesting question to me is why and when such people get support
from the population.

If evolved psychological traits related to war are too distasteful to
contemplate, perhaps this might work to convince you that we have such
traits.  https://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Capture-bonding

Not that understanding evolutionary psychology is likely to do you any good.

Keith

> On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 9:23 PM Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 4:27 PM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Yes we know, you have said the same thing countless times but it’s still not a complete picture.  And in fact I think it explains almost none of Trump.
>>
>> I am not surprised that you think in a way that denies evolved
>> psychological traits.  You miss the point, it's about the response of
>> stressed people.  Focusing on Trump is looking in the wrong direction.
>>
>> "Traits evolved in the EEA might apply to the current situation in the
>> US. Consider the correlation between areas with poor economic
>> prospects such as the Rust Belt and the current prevalence of
>> xenophobic memes (or just crazy ones such as QAnon).
>>
>> If the root cause of the symptoms we see is the perception of a bleak
>> future, is there anything we could do?
>>
>> The obvious thing is to improve economic conditions or at least the
>> perception of them. By this model, the IRA went out of business
>> because of improving income per capita. The major reason for this was
>> that the Irish women cut the number of children they had from around 4
>> to replacement. With low or zero population growth, even small
>> economic growth makes the future look brighter, population support for
>> fighting diminished, and the IRA slowly went out of business.
>>
>> The present article might help people understand the evolutionary
>> origins of certain types of behavior. The people who were caught up in
>> events such as the Rwanda genocide or, more recently, the Jan. 6
>> attack on the Capitol appear not to understand their own behavior.
>>
>> Simple as this model is, humans seem to have a (possibly evolved) bias
>> against the understanding that they have or are influenced by evolved
>> internal psychological mechanisms. In other words, too much insight
>> may not be good for your genes."
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> > Trump ran in the primaries against double digit numbers of Republicans who were all just as xenophobic.  And in fact unlike the rest of them Trump was a NYC Democrat.  So that’s not what his allure is.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 7:06 PM Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have a different view of why Trump.
>> >>
>> >> Look at where he is supported, it's places that are economically
>> >> depressed or where people think they have a bleak future,  This is due
>> >> to a wired-in psychological trait that in the Stone Age was the first
>> >> response to a resource crisis.
>> >>
>> >> Eventually, this leads to war against some outsider group or an attack
>> >> on an identifiable subgroup.
>> >>
>> >> The problem is not so much Trump but the evolved psychological traits
>> >> humans have.
>> >>
>> >> That humans have any such traits is a very difficult concept for
>> >> people to understand
>> >>
>> >> Keith
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 3:44 PM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > First past the post voting and the electoral college are both horrible, yes.
>> >> >
>> >> > None of your reasons are what I mentioned.  Nobody cares what Trump will do, they care that he’s not the old political elite oligarchy and that he criticizes it.  That’s it.  Without that he would be exactly the same as any other Republican.  I have tried to explain this to you numerous times.  It’s not about policy, so if you want to understand, please listen.  Giulio and Dylan have explained well too.
>> >> >
>> >> > Intelligence is not the issue.  Some people believe the bog standard Republican promises Trump makes, and some don’t.  That’s not why he is popular, and it’s why people don’t care when he breaks promises.  Because they aren’t voting for his policies.  They are voting as a vote of exasperation and spite against the political establishment that lies in a much more insidious and long-term way.  The fix is simple, just have a Democrat run who criticizes political elites.  But it isn’t happening, because the party won’t allow it, as seen with Bernie.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 6:08 PM John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 10:16 AM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> > I would prefer a third party,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I would prefer that too but thanks to the screwy electoral college system it's virtually impossible to have 3 political parties in which any of the 3 has a real chance of winning the presidency, the best you could have is 2 real candidates plus a spoiler candidate who has no chance of winning but can change which of the 2 real candidates wins. The dreadful electoral college system is made even worse because nearly all the states have adopted a winner take all approach, if somebody gets 50.1% of the popular vote in a state then they get 100% of the real votes, the only votes that matter, the electoral votes; even if 49.9% of the people in a state vote for a candidate he gets none of the 270 votes needed to win.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And Will, I don't know if your reasons for Trump's popularity among white lower middle class men is correct but if it is you certainly don't paint a very flattering portrait of the intelligence of that particular political electorate:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 1) Trump is something new:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Kamala Harris has never been president and like all vice presidents she never had much power, but Donald Trump has been president for four years and he bungled the job to a job dropping degree!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2) Trump will do better on beating inflation:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Trump wants to drastically cut the taxes on billionaires and pay for that by imposing huge new tariffs, which is equivalent to a national sales tax, which would affect the lower and middle class much much more than the upper class. The Wall Street Journal, a pro Trump newspaper, conducted the following survey of economists and this is what they found:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Two-Thirds Of Economists Think Inflation Would Be Worse Under Trump Than Harris
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And sixteen Nobel Prize winning economists signed a letter saying Trump's economic ideas were nonsense:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sixteen Nobel Economists Sign Letter About Risks to the U.S. Economy of a Second Trump Presidency
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 3) Trump wants to help the working man:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Trump has always done his best to keep unions out of any of his companies, and just a few days ago we had Trump, a self-proclaimed billionaire, was giving a speech while the world's richest man was literally dancing around him while figuratively kissing Trump's ass. And this is the savior of the middle class?!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Elon Musk captured jumping on stage at Trump rally
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 4) Trump will solve the most important problem facing the nation, illegal immigration:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ten or fifteen years from now people, or Mr. Jupiter Brain, will look back on the "vitally important" immigration problem and laugh.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> John K Clark
>> >> >>
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