[ExI] [Extropolis] Re: Musk set up 100,000 Nvidia H200 GPUs in 19 days - Nvidia says ​it normally takes 4 years

[Keith Henson]

You have missed how the human model works.  The condition that turns
on the first step in the process is a *subjective )view" of the
future. It is, in the US case, places where things are worse in
outlook than they were in person's view of the past.  This trips our
Stone Age detectors of a coming resource crisis and we become more
likely to spread xenophobic or crazy memes.  (In the Stone Age this
led to an attempt to kill the neighbors and take their resources,
i.e., war. While war is rational from the gene's viewpoint it is not
rational from the individual's viewpoint, so genes for seemingly
irrational behavior are favored.)

And it is relative.  See the Robert B. Cialdini reference in
https://www.academia.edu/777381/Evolutionary_psychology_memes_and_the_origin_of_war
 You don't need to be starving, just feel that the future is not going
to be as good as what you are accustomed to.

I don't expect you to understand or agree with this.  Most people have
a strong bias against the idea that they have such evolved internal
psychological traits. Probably too much insight is bad for your genes.

Keith

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 9:47 PM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What a reductive question.  I don’t have to have an answer, but it’s certainly not poverty as the most impoverished inner city areas are not MAGA/Qanon, and plenty of rich people are MAGA.  So we have at least failed to reject the null hypothesis there in my opinion.  I don’t have a good suggestion, I reckon it is a confluence of many factors.  An easy guess which I think is better than yours is rural vs urban, which I think tracks far more completely, and is borne out in electoral maps.
>
> Of course the real answer is surely multifaceted and includes economic, religious, vocational, racial, etc. factors.
>
> I also think you are happy to reduce people to statistics when they disagree with you, but what about you?  Do you not support Trump because you make a certain amount of money?  If you became destitute would you suddenly believe conspiracy theories?  It’s patronizing.  As if a person’s opinion becomes the “poor person opinion” if they are poor.  Some poor people are communists.  Some are nazis.  Some have the most bog standard opinions you can imagine.   It’s just not a good determinant of political leaning and I think it’s easy to come up with counterexamples.
>
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 9:43 PM Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You did not attempt to answer my question.
>>
>> What is the difference between parts of the country that buy into
>> MAGA/QAnon and those parts that don't?
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2024 at 8:02 AM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > The poorest people in the country are overwhelmingly people of color and they are overwhelmingly democrat.  Though I will give you that they too are starting to go towards Trump.
>> >
>> > I do believe there is a tendency towards strongmen in uncertain times.  But my explanation of Trump in particular is that he represents specifically a reaction towards calcified political oligarchy and inefficiency.  Which some strongmen are, and others aren’t.  But I believe the reason he is supported so strongly is because people see this oligarchy as their #1 issue and that it is responsible for all other problems.  And in particular people take issue with the brazen lying that anything about this oligarchy is efficient or positive.  It’s like lying about Biden’s mental decline until the very last possible second.  Lies like that absolutely destroy trust and make people see things as a farce.  So when some guy comes along and is the only one saying “those guys are liars and this is a farce” it resonates so strongly that they don’t even care that he lies about other things.  What they care about is the long con by the 2 party establishment that everything is/was going smoothly when the people see and experience the wheels falling off
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 18, 2024 at 5:10 PM Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> @Keith I feel I have provided an explanation,
>> >>
>> >> Sorry, If you did, I missed it.
>> >>
>> >> > you’re just choosing to not listen unless I agree that your model explains all of why people like Trump.
>> >>
>> >> Ignore Trump, do you have an explanation as to why MAGA and QAnon
>> >> activity/belief is concentrated in the economically depressed areas of
>> >> the country?  Or conversely, why do these memes get little traction in
>> >> relatively prosperous places?
>> >>
>> >> > I’m not sure why you think the single brain level is the only important factor for what humans do.  We have the entirety of culture and memetics forming emergent mind structures and they have their own set of traits.
>> >>
>> >> Are you aware of how much I have written on memes?  Richard Dawkins
>> >> acknowledged my work in the second edition of The Selfish Gene.
>> >>
>> >> MEMETICS AND THE MODULAR-MIND Analog 1987
>> >>
>> >> http://www.churchofvirus.org/bbs/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=29007
>> >>
>> >> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.mindcontrol/c/MebHkQFkUT4/m/rAwQ5rwDPhAJ
>> >>
>> >> > Children raised in isolation are like animals, but you seem to think that all people are solely these animals.
>> >>
>> >> My work is all over the web.  I don't think you can support such a
>> >> claim.  But try it and let me know.
>> >>
>> >> Keith
>> >>
>> >>  I truly don’t get it when everything apparent points to there being
>> >> so much more than just the evolved physical content of brains.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Oct 18, 2024 at 9:58 AM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > John as usual you have purposefully or ignorantly misread so much of what I said that it is almost impossible to respond.  It is a sisyphean task and I’m not sure why I do it.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Oct 18, 2024 at 7:47 AM John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 6:44 PM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> > None of your reasons are what I mentioned.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Obviously you're right that none of the reasons I mentioned have decreased Trump's popularity with the Nazi-Curious one bit, but that fact is incompatible with something else you said, "Intelligence is not the issue".
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I’m not sure the point of this part, I’m pointing out that you did your typical thing of completely ignoring the main point and responding with whatever random bullshit is in your head and you want to say.  It is very much like Trump does.  Your brash ignorance and lack of understanding or care about context as well as the way you act like you believing something makes it fact are Trumpian.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> > Nobody cares what Trump will do
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Nobody? I care, in fact a majority of American voters care, but of course their votes do not elect the president, only the 538 members of the electoral college are allowed to vote for the president. I will however concede the fact that YOU do not care.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > By “nobody” I obviously meant “nobody [who is voting for Trump].”
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> they care that he’s not the old political elite oligarchy
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Trump is the oldest man to ever run for president from a major political party in the entire history of the country, Trump is a former president, Trump is a billionaire, Trump has the richest man in the world LITERALLY dancing around him.... and yet he's not a member of the "old political elite oligarchy"?  No Will, intelligence is very much an issue.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes John, when you explore a concept, you have to look at THE WHOLE FUCKING THING.  Trump hasn’t been part of the old political oligarchy because unlike all the other people who run he wasn’t inside the party machines.  He dealt with them (and was a Democrat forever) but it’s very different from being inside them and being beholden to them.  This is the obliteratively obvious point I am trying to make.  Trump may be a corporate oligarch but he’s not a political one.  And I would argue he wasn’t really a corporate one, he didn’t have his fingers in many serious pies.  More of a socialite and stuck to his real estate stuff and his dumb tv shows and ridiculous products, nothing like the heads of multinational food/chemical/oil/etc. companies who are seriously intermingled with government and routinely pull strings that affect foreign and domestic policies in a massive way.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> > It’s not about policy,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Obviously true, therefore it must be about intelligence, or rather the lack of it.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Or it could be about the other thing that I overtly said.  How does your mind work?  I don’t know how you manage to so perfectly miss every point.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> > people don’t care when he breaks promises
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's true that some people don't care that Trump breaks promises, and some people don't care that Trump tells an obvious bold-faced lie about once every 35 seconds in every speech he gives. You care so little you say you're not even going to bother to vote. But I care, and I have already voted.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Again, the obvious meaning here is that people who like Trump don’t care if he breaks promises.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>  > The fix is simple, just have a Democrat run who criticizes political elites.  But it isn’t happening, because the party won’t allow it, as seen with Bernie.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Will, if you believe that an old man like Bernie Sanders, older than Trump and even older than Biden, could beat Donald Trump in a presidential race then I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Well I see how this one could be misinterpreted but I wasn’t explicitly saying Bernie could beat Trump now, more trying to show that the Democrats scuttle the ascendancy of anyone who criticizes their political system.  But I do think he would have a shot at beating him.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > @Keith I feel I have provided an explanation, you’re just choosing to not listen unless I agree that your model explains all of why people like Trump.  I’m not sure why you think the single brain level is the only important factor for what humans do.  We have the entirety of culture and memetics forming emergent mind structures and they have their own set of traits.  Children raised in isolation are like animals, but you seem to think that all people are solely these animals.  I truly don’t get it when everything apparent points to there being so much more than just the evolved physical content of brains.
>> >> >
>> >> > --
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