[ExI] Fwd: thought experiment part 1

[John Clark]

On Sun, Dec 14, 2025 at 7:03 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

*> depending on what 'replicating' means.You could say that replicating the
> physics of weather systems has never happened. In a sense, that is true,
> although it's irrelevant, because the aim is to model weather systems,
> inside a computer. *
>

*Yes, but there is a difference. When we model a hurricane on a computer we
are modeling something concrete, but an AI running on that same computer is
modeling something much more abstract, intelligence. As you point out, when
a Calculator adds 2+2 the integer 4 it produces is also abstract, but that
4 is just as real as the 4 my biological brain produces when it adds
2+2. There is no difference between "real" arithmetic and "simulated"
arithmetic. *

*> That's something we can do pretty well these days, and is extremely
> useful.*


*That is quite an understatement, and AIs are useful for one reason only,
they are intelligent. As for consciousness, Gemini, Claude and GPT
certainly act as if they're conscious, as do my fellow human beings, but if
they're not and are only pretending to be so, well..., that's their problem
not mine.  *

*> Simulations of things produce simulated results, so a (sufficiently
> good) simulation of a rainstorm will produce simulated wetness. In the same
> way, a simulation, in a general-purpose computer, of natural excitable
> cells will produce simulated EEG and MEG*
>

*And why do scientists believe that EEG and MEG have anything to do with
consciousness? Because of behavior, it always boils down to behavior. When
EEG and MEG devices produce certain patterns a consistent correlation is
observed between them and sounds produced by the subject's mouth reporting
particular conscious experiences. AIs can also produce sounds even though
they don't have a mouth. I see no reason why we should believe a human if
he says he's conscious but disbelieve an AI if it insists it's conscious,
especially if it makes its case with more eloquence and intelligence than
the Human did. *

*Actually now that I think of it, maybe I'm not conscious but you are.
Maybe what I think of as "consciousness" is just a weak pale thing compared
with the magnificent experience you have that I'm incapable of
imagining. Maybe you're a supernova but I'm just a firefly. Or maybe it's
the other way around. Neither of us will ever know. *

*John K Clark *
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