[ExI] Mind Uploading: is it still me?

[John Clark]

On Wed, Dec 24, 2025 at 9:08 PM Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> wrote:

* >> it's very unclear to me why, even under ideal conditions, an upload
>> would want a meat body, and the more overpopulated the physical environment
>> becomes the more unpleasant it would be and so there would be even less
>> reason to want to download.*
>
>
> * > Do you buy cars without test-driving them? *


*No, but test-driving a car is easy, test-driving a medical procedure like
uploading would be vastly more difficult.  *


> * > I don't and am not interested in destructive or one-way uploading. *


*I won't go so far as to say it's impossible but it would require a much
more sophisticated technology to make a non-destructive upload than a
destructive one, which already requires extreme sophistication; so it's
going to become feasible much later, especially when you consider the fact
that there would be little demand to develop it. I wouldn't want to be the
first person uploaded, I'd want to make sure all the bugs had been worked
out of the procedure, but after a few dozen people had been uploaded and
they report they are satisfied with the results I'd feel much less
trepidation in doing it myself.   *


> *> Now, I suspect that uploaded life will be so attractive compared to the
> physical state that it will result in a population crash. *


*If you mean the population of meat bodies then I agree. But then I don't
understand why you wrote:*

*"I** think there should be a restriction or custom of one at a time.  You
can either be an active meat body or an upload, but not both at the same
time.  And copies are not permitted. Otherwise, the population gets
entirely out of hand." *

*I don't think that would be necessary because even in a post-singularity
world the free market would still retain many advantages over a command
economy, so it can sort that problem out by itself. *

*>> Back in 2016 when it was still unclear if AI or uploading would come
>> first Robin Hanson gave me the first draft of the book he was working on
>> called "The Age of Em" and asked me for comments. He thought (incorrectly
>> as it turned out) that uploading would come first. He figured if there was
>> a task you needed to do that would take about two weeks you would make a
>> temporary upload of yourself that he called an "Em" that would accomplish
>> the task and when it was finished the copy was supposed to just kill
>> himself and let the original carry on with his life. I thought that was
>> unrealistic and blatantly unfair because the copy never asked to be made,
>> the original is the one who decided to cause it to come into existence and
>> so should be responsible for it. I suggested a slight modification in the
>> plan, the original would accomplish the little two week task and then the
>> original would terminate himself and the copy would carry on. But I don't
>> think Robin liked my suggestion very much.*
>
>

*> Heh.  A good copy would be identical to the original.*


*Yes, at the instant it was created the original and the copy would be
identical, but the trouble is after two weeks of doing different things the
two would no longer be identical. Both would want to survive and I think
both should have the right to do so. *


> *> I used a figure of 99% in the story I wrote because you need characters
> for a story,*


*Yeah that's a problem, that's why even if I was good at writing fiction
(and I'm not) I couldn't write a realistic SF story about the Singularity,
at least not one that anybody would want to read.  *


*John K Clark *


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