[ExI] Do you have a secret family pass phrase?
efc at disroot.org
efc at disroot.org
Mon Jan 20 18:59:29 UTC 2025
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, efc at disroot.org wrote:
>My experiences with the scientology cult make me think there is a big
>genetic component to being sucked into a cult.
Isn't this a natural reflex on over drive? I can see it as being useful for
survival to quickly and efficiently join a collective in order to get safety
in numbers, harmonious and efficient leadership structures, to work together
bonded by a common ideology, enemy or what ever.
I think most humans have this, but perhaps when it comes to cults, some have
this trait more than others?
Then there is of course the side of the equation when it comes to being in a
temporarily emotionally vulnerable state and a cult by chance working you at
that exact time. This I imagine, would also make it easier to recruit people,
when they are in that state.
>I don't have survey data but my impression is that people with Mormon
>genetic background are considerably overrepresented.
>
>The scientologists also get sucked into every MLM scheme that comes along.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Keith
>
>On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 9:58 AM efc--- via extropy-chat
><extropy-chat at lists.extropy.orgwrote:
>>
>>Thank you very much for sharing. I can't say I have contributed much to
>>the "positive" side. I remember that we tend to dive into what you can
>>know, how you know it, what it might imply etc.
>>
>>As long as you feel you are in a better place, I'm happy for you! I'm also
>>happy hearing about your experience because it restores hope for me, that
>>change can be achieved by people talking with each other.
>>
>>It might not happen fast, it might not happen at all, but for some it does
>>happen. This is very inspirational.
>>
>>On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I resemble that "seeds of doubt" comment. I met some brilliant
>>>philosophers in Japan on my mission, who were willing to talk to us
>>>in business suits. It made me realize their teachings, in many ways,
>>>were far better than what I was pushing. By the end of my
>>>mission my "testimony" in a lot of what I was teaching was gone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 9:32 AM efc--- via extropy-chat
>>><extropy-chat at lists.extropy.orgwrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, Kelly Anderson via extropy-chat wrote:
>>>
>>> As a former missionary, I can tell you that you do have a point
>>>here.
>>> Although there were a few agnostics in my mission who were there
>>>just
>>> because of social pressure. It almost worked on me, I lasted until
>>>I
>>> was 45 as an active Mormon. Eventually, life just hit me over the
>>>head
>>> with a 4x4 and I figured things out.
>>> >
>>> But... on my mission, converts were definitely what we were going
>>>for.
>>> I myself converted around 72 people. I am not especially proud of
>>>
>>> I enjoy talking to the very polite, business suit clad guys when I
>>> meet them. Sadly, after we get into to deep philosophical waters,
>>>they
>>> lose interest and move on. ;) I often wonder if I managed to sow
>>>some
>>> seeds of doubt in them during our conversations. =)
>>>
>>> that, and I'm sure there aren't 10% of them that are still active.
>>>But
>>> I am not ashamed of it either, because I was just as much a victim
>>>of
>>> the brainwashing as they were. Not believing in free will now
>>>gives me
>>> a pretty solid "out" for what I did. And, I actually feel good
>>>about
>>> the one Jehovah's Witness that I converted. Mormonism is
>>>definitely
>>> better than that craziness. Kids who die from not being given the
>>> choice to have blood transfusions because of their parents are
>>> considered martyrs. That's really messed up. Baptism for the dead
>>> doesn't hurt anyone, by comparison.
>>> >
>>> -Kelly
>>> >
>>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 10:21 AM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat
>>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.orgwrote:
>>> >>
>>> >The LDS missionary program is only secondarily about recruiting
>>>new members from the general population. Really, the
>>> people running the program don't care if the nice young people in
>>>the shirts and ties and nametags ever convince anyone
>>> of anything.
>>> >>
>>> >The program is designed from the ground up to cement the lifelong
>>>emotional loyalty of the missionaries themselves,
>>> who are barely trained children spending two years living away from
>>>home in a commune under a complete media blackout.
>>> >>
>>> >The carrot is that, after they finish their stint as a missionary
>>>(which they themselves paid tens of thousands of
>>> dollars for the privilege), they are on a track that, if they
>>>pursue it, can take them into senior leadership positions
>>> within the church..
>>> >>
>>> >They are barely equipped to even present the elevator pitch for
>>>their own theology, much less grapple critically with
>>> anyone else's, because That Is Not The Point.
>>> >>
>>> >On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 10:11 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat
>>><extropy-chat at lists.extropy.orgwrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>On 27/12/2024 14:45, efc at disroot.org wrote:
>>> >>>The mormons often seem more afraid of me, than I of them, when
>>>we
>>> >>>start to discuss philosophy and they soon tire of the
>>>conversation. ��
>>> >>>
>>> >>I've had a similar experience with Jehovah's Witnesses. It's odd
>>>that
>>> >>the god squad seem most reluctant to talk to people who seem to
>>>actually
>>> >>know something about religion! It's like mathematicians being
>>>leery of
>>> >>anyone who shows any knowledge of maths.
>>> >>>
>>> >>This may be my cynicism showing, but I suspect that it's because
>>>they
>>> >>are more interested in compliance with their particular
>>>viewpoint than
>>> >>understanding. If you want to understand things, you're
>>>obviously not
>>> >>good convert material!
>>> >>>
>>> >>I think it was Luther who said that reason is the enemy of
>>>faith. Seems
>>> >>he was right.
>>> >>>
>>> >>--
>>> >>Ben
>>> >>>
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>>> >>
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