[ExI] Do you have a secret family pass phrase?

Kelly Anderson postmowoods at gmail.com
Wed Jan 29 22:39:18 UTC 2025 

Obviously, a Ponzi scheme is and should be illegal. Mormon business
people copied a successful model when developing MLM, and followed
laws that prevented it from becoming a true Ponzi scheme.
Nevertheless, Mormon genetics and society makes them attracted to MLM
because of its familiarity. It feels like "home" to a Mormon.

The biggest danger to Mormons in terms of being truly scalped are the
"wolves in sheep's clothing" that aren't truly Mormons, but act as if
they are to gain psychological advantage over their fellow men. Some
of these guys actually end up drinking the Kool Aid, which I find
hilarious. But it is not hilarious to find a bishop who scalps a large
number in his congregation into investing in his business hustle. The
church is aware of this problem and I believe have taken some steps to
mitigate the effect, but it's super difficult to prevent when your
doctrine is to "follow the leader" without too much thought involved.

-Kelly

On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 3:01 PM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Utah in general, and Utah LDS church culture specifically, is an abnormally homogenous, high-trust subculture, relative to the rest of the US.
>
> This makes them particularly vulnerable to bad actors, especially those with the right parasocial affiliations.
>
> On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 1:04 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yes, Utah seems to be the Multi Level Marketing capital of the world.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 11:42 AM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> My experiences with the scientology cult make me think there is a big
>>> genetic component to being sucked into a cult.
>>>
>>> I don't have survey data but my impression is that people with Mormon
>>> genetic background are considerably overrepresented.
>>>
>>> The scientologists also get sucked into every MLM scheme that comes along.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 9:58 AM efc--- via extropy-chat
>>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Thank you very much for sharing. I can't say I have contributed much to
>>> > the "positive" side. I remember that we tend to dive into what you can
>>> > know, how you know it, what it might imply etc.
>>> >
>>> > As long as you feel you are in a better place, I'm happy for you! I'm also
>>> > happy hearing about your experience because it restores hope for me, that
>>> > change can be achieved by people talking with each other.
>>> >
>>> > It might not happen fast, it might not happen at all, but for some it does
>>> > happen. This is very inspirational.
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > I resemble that "seeds of doubt" comment.  I met some brilliant philosophers in Japan on my mission, who were willing to talk to us
>>> > > in business suits.  It made me realize their teachings, in many ways, were far better than what I was pushing.  By the end of my
>>> > > mission my "testimony" in a lot of what I was teaching was gone.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 9:32 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >       On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, Kelly Anderson via extropy-chat wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >       > As a former missionary, I can tell you that you do have a point here.
>>> > >       > Although there were a few agnostics in my mission who were there just
>>> > >       > because of social pressure. It almost worked on me, I lasted until I
>>> > >       > was 45 as an active Mormon. Eventually, life just hit me over the head
>>> > >       > with a 4x4 and I figured things out.
>>> > >       >
>>> > >       > But... on my mission, converts were definitely what we were going for.
>>> > >       > I myself converted around 72 people. I am not especially proud of
>>> > >
>>> > >       I enjoy talking to the very polite, business suit clad guys when I
>>> > >       meet them. Sadly, after we get into to deep philosophical waters, they
>>> > >       lose interest and move on. ;) I often wonder if I managed to sow some
>>> > >       seeds of doubt in them during our conversations. =)
>>> > >
>>> > >       > that, and I'm sure there aren't 10% of them that are still active. But
>>> > >       > I am not ashamed of it either, because I was just as much a victim of
>>> > >       > the brainwashing as they were. Not believing in free will now gives me
>>> > >       > a pretty solid "out" for what I did. And, I actually feel good about
>>> > >       > the one Jehovah's Witness that I converted. Mormonism is definitely
>>> > >       > better than that craziness. Kids who die from not being given the
>>> > >       > choice to have blood transfusions because of their parents are
>>> > >       > considered martyrs. That's really messed up. Baptism for the dead
>>> > >       > doesn't hurt anyone, by comparison.
>>> > >       >
>>> > >       > -Kelly
>>> > >       >
>>> > >       > On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 10:21 AM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat
>>> > >       > <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> > >       >>
>>> > >       >> The LDS missionary program is only secondarily about recruiting new members from the general population. Really, the
>>> > >       people running the program don't care if the nice young people in the shirts and ties and nametags ever convince anyone
>>> > >       of anything.
>>> > >       >>
>>> > >       >> The program is designed from the ground up to cement the lifelong emotional loyalty of the missionaries themselves,
>>> > >       who are barely trained children spending two years living away from home in a commune under a complete media blackout.
>>> > >       >>
>>> > >       >> The carrot is that, after they finish their stint as a missionary (which they themselves paid tens of thousands of
>>> > >       dollars for the privilege), they are on a track that, if they pursue it, can take them into senior leadership positions
>>> > >       within the church..
>>> > >       >>
>>> > >       >> They are barely equipped to even present the elevator pitch for their own theology, much less grapple critically with
>>> > >       anyone else's, because That Is Not The Point.
>>> > >       >>
>>> > >       >> On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 10:11 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> > >       >>>
>>> > >       >>> On 27/12/2024 14:45, efc at disroot.org wrote:
>>> > >       >>> > The mormons often seem more afraid of me, than I of them, when we
>>> > >       >>> > start to discuss philosophy and they soon tire of the conversation. ��
>>> > >       >>>
>>> > >       >>> I've had a similar experience with Jehovah's Witnesses. It's odd that
>>> > >       >>> the god squad seem most reluctant to talk to people who seem to actually
>>> > >       >>> know something about religion! It's like mathematicians being leery of
>>> > >       >>> anyone who shows any knowledge of maths.
>>> > >       >>>
>>> > >       >>> This may be my cynicism showing, but I suspect that it's because they
>>> > >       >>> are more interested in compliance with their particular viewpoint than
>>> > >       >>> understanding. If you want to understand things, you're obviously not
>>> > >       >>> good convert material!
>>> > >       >>>
>>> > >       >>> I think it was Luther who said that reason is the enemy of faith. Seems
>>> > >       >>> he was right.
>>> > >       >>>
>>> > >       >>> --
>>> > >       >>> Ben
>>> > >       >>>
>>> > >       >>> _______________________________________________
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