[ExI] Do you have a secret family pass phrase?
Darin Sunley
dsunley at gmail.com
Mon Jan 20 22:00:46 UTC 2025
Utah in general, and Utah LDS church culture specifically, is an abnormally
homogenous, high-trust subculture, relative to the rest of the US.
This makes them particularly vulnerable to bad actors, especially those
with the right parasocial affiliations.
On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 1:04 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Yes, Utah seems to be the Multi Level Marketing capital of the world.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 11:42 AM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> My experiences with the scientology cult make me think there is a big
>> genetic component to being sucked into a cult.
>>
>> I don't have survey data but my impression is that people with Mormon
>> genetic background are considerably overrepresented.
>>
>> The scientologists also get sucked into every MLM scheme that comes along.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 9:58 AM efc--- via extropy-chat
>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thank you very much for sharing. I can't say I have contributed much to
>> > the "positive" side. I remember that we tend to dive into what you can
>> > know, how you know it, what it might imply etc.
>> >
>> > As long as you feel you are in a better place, I'm happy for you! I'm
>> also
>> > happy hearing about your experience because it restores hope for me,
>> that
>> > change can be achieved by people talking with each other.
>> >
>> > It might not happen fast, it might not happen at all, but for some it
>> does
>> > happen. This is very inspirational.
>> >
>> > On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > I resemble that "seeds of doubt" comment. I met some brilliant
>> philosophers in Japan on my mission, who were willing to talk to us
>> > > in business suits. It made me realize their teachings, in many ways,
>> were far better than what I was pushing. By the end of my
>> > > mission my "testimony" in a lot of what I was teaching was gone.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 9:32 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, Kelly Anderson via extropy-chat wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > As a former missionary, I can tell you that you do have a
>> point here.
>> > > > Although there were a few agnostics in my mission who were
>> there just
>> > > > because of social pressure. It almost worked on me, I lasted
>> until I
>> > > > was 45 as an active Mormon. Eventually, life just hit me over
>> the head
>> > > > with a 4x4 and I figured things out.
>> > > >
>> > > > But... on my mission, converts were definitely what we were
>> going for.
>> > > > I myself converted around 72 people. I am not especially
>> proud of
>> > >
>> > > I enjoy talking to the very polite, business suit clad guys
>> when I
>> > > meet them. Sadly, after we get into to deep philosophical
>> waters, they
>> > > lose interest and move on. ;) I often wonder if I managed to
>> sow some
>> > > seeds of doubt in them during our conversations. =)
>> > >
>> > > > that, and I'm sure there aren't 10% of them that are still
>> active. But
>> > > > I am not ashamed of it either, because I was just as much a
>> victim of
>> > > > the brainwashing as they were. Not believing in free will now
>> gives me
>> > > > a pretty solid "out" for what I did. And, I actually feel
>> good about
>> > > > the one Jehovah's Witness that I converted. Mormonism is
>> definitely
>> > > > better than that craziness. Kids who die from not being given
>> the
>> > > > choice to have blood transfusions because of their parents are
>> > > > considered martyrs. That's really messed up. Baptism for the
>> dead
>> > > > doesn't hurt anyone, by comparison.
>> > > >
>> > > > -Kelly
>> > > >
>> > > > On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 10:21 AM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat
>> > > > <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> The LDS missionary program is only secondarily about
>> recruiting new members from the general population. Really, the
>> > > people running the program don't care if the nice young people
>> in the shirts and ties and nametags ever convince anyone
>> > > of anything.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> The program is designed from the ground up to cement the
>> lifelong emotional loyalty of the missionaries themselves,
>> > > who are barely trained children spending two years living away
>> from home in a commune under a complete media blackout.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> The carrot is that, after they finish their stint as a
>> missionary (which they themselves paid tens of thousands of
>> > > dollars for the privilege), they are on a track that, if they
>> pursue it, can take them into senior leadership positions
>> > > within the church..
>> > > >>
>> > > >> They are barely equipped to even present the elevator pitch
>> for their own theology, much less grapple critically with
>> > > anyone else's, because That Is Not The Point.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 10:11 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat
>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> On 27/12/2024 14:45, efc at disroot.org wrote:
>> > > >>> > The mormons often seem more afraid of me, than I of them,
>> when we
>> > > >>> > start to discuss philosophy and they soon tire of the
>> conversation. ��
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> I've had a similar experience with Jehovah's Witnesses.
>> It's odd that
>> > > >>> the god squad seem most reluctant to talk to people who
>> seem to actually
>> > > >>> know something about religion! It's like mathematicians
>> being leery of
>> > > >>> anyone who shows any knowledge of maths.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> This may be my cynicism showing, but I suspect that it's
>> because they
>> > > >>> are more interested in compliance with their particular
>> viewpoint than
>> > > >>> understanding. If you want to understand things, you're
>> obviously not
>> > > >>> good convert material!
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> I think it was Luther who said that reason is the enemy of
>> faith. Seems
>> > > >>> he was right.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> --
>> > > >>> Ben
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> _______________________________________________
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