[ExI] not that rare earth (part 2 of at least 2)

[John Clark]

On Sun, Nov 2, 2025 at 3:49 PM <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:

*>A None of those elements’ magnetic properties are significant enough to
> matter.*
>

*Spike, wishing does not make it true. *


>  *> It’s the iron which does the magnetic magic.  The trace of heavies
> are just there to control the crystal growth in the iron.  They are
> catalysts.  They really are mostly interchangeable. *
>

*No they are not interchangeable. Neodymium and Samarium exhibit stronger
magnetism in certain directions than others because electrons in their
atom's 4f shell (which are not valence electrons which cause chemical
properties) are unevenly distributed. This directionality can coordinate
the fields of other metals, like iron or cobalt, to produce magnetic fields
that are much more powerful than any other magnet can. But from an economic
and political viewpoint it really doesn't matter WHY rare earth elements
are needed to make the best magnets, the important fact is that they DO
matter.*


> *> We can make good magnets without the rare earths.*
>

*Perhaps there is a way to make intensely powerful magnets without using
such exotic elements, but if there is search a way nobody has found it yet,
if somebody had it would be a trillion dollar Nobel prize deserving
discovery and you and I and the entire world would certainly know about
it.  *

 > *How about lutetium?  That one isn’t even radioactive, but if you saw
> the chemical symbol Lu, you would guess someone is putting you on.  But
> there it is, right there between ytterbium and Hafnium.  Chemistry
> hipsters, how many of you have ever worked with lutetium?  Neither have I.*
>

*What's your point? Some people have specialized in the rare earth
elements during their entire scientific career, and I'm sure for some of
them their PhD was a study of how lutetium behaves under various
conditions. Incidentally lutetium is one of the rarest of the rare earths
but even so it's much more common than silver, and that fact tells you that
the important thing is not rare earth mines, it's rare earth refineries.*

*> But for the application where a lot of the material is used (generators
> and turbines) the density doesn’t matter anyway. *
>


*Density doesn't matter but weight does matter in wind turbines and cars
and aircraft and drones and robots. Just one F-35 fighter jet contains
about 900 pounds of rare earth metals, and an ultra modern Virginia-class
attack submarine needs 9,200 pounds. Even the phone in your pocket would be
larger and heavier than it is now without rare earth metals.  *

> *> China’s motors are not better enough to cover the cost of shipping them
> here.*
>


*That's not true, or rather it wasn't true until He Who Must Not Be Named
astronomically huge and completely idiotic tariffs came along. *

> *> your confidence appears to be unjustifiable arrogance. *
>

*I'm sorry if I sound arrogant, but you keep making statements that
scientifically are objectively false, and that can be frustrating.  *

*The only industry I can see which is seriously impacted is one we don’t
> really need: wind turbine manufacturers. *


*China certainly believes that they need wind turbines because they're
building them for their own use at a furious rate, and that rate is
increasing. Today China generates 490 gigawatts of electricity from wind
power, and they plan to produce 1300 gigawatts by 2030. A typical nuclear
power plant produces about 1 gigawatt. You Know Who hates wind power
because he believes "the windmills are driving the whales crazy,
obviously", but I assume that is not the reason you dislike it, please
correct me if I'm wrong. *

*John K Clark*



>
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