[ExI] Randomness and Free will

[Brent Allsop]

I see some people don't value discussing this topic of free will.
I think it is important, and has a lot to do with morality.
There are lots of ways to think about this and I think it is very
interesting to find out and track what people believe on this.
I'm in the "Compatible"
<https://canonizer.com/topic/128-Determinism-vs-Freedom/2-Compatible?is_tree_open=1>
camp, and believe that randomness destroys free will. (ability to reliably
get what is best for you.)
God is only 'free' if he can absolutely and deterministically always make
the right choice, anything else means he is not yet free, or not yet God.





On Sat, Nov 15, 2025 at 1:13 AM Giulio Prisco via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 13, 2025 at 12:25 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >
> > Changing subjects from the previous thread:
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 12, 2025, 6:57 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 6:53 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat
> >> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >> > Not to mention, it's irrational to reason backwards from what one
> wants to be true.
> >>
> >> On this we wholeheartedly agree.  And yet, it's what I keep running
> into.
> >
>
> At times, irrationality is the smartest attitude.
>
> >
> > Regarding free will, you previously said there may be some true
> randomness in the universe.
> >
> > Do you think true randomness is required for free will, or are you a
> compatibilist (free will is can exist in a universe which has no randomness
> at all)?
> >
> > And finally, if you do believe in randomness, what form do you see it
> taking:
> >
> > - Events in the universe that don't have causes (i.e. "God playing dice")
> >
> > - Hidden variables which we cannot in principle access (QM is incomplete)
> >
> > - Unpredictability arising from chaos combined with incomplete or
> imperfect information (Like my deterministic simulation example, or how
> pseudorandom number generators work)
> >
> > - Self-locating uncertainty in the face of duplication (Many worlds's
> answer, or "Tegmark's cloned while sleeping" example)
> >
> > - The "un-anticibility" (for lack of a better word) of computationally
> irreducible processes (e.g. Wolfram's answer, that we can't always predict
> what complex computer program will do until it does it)
> >
> > - Something non-algorithmic (or hypercomputation) exists in physics
> (e.g. like Penrose and his quantum gravity speculations)
> >
> > - Libertarian free will (i.e., the brain's will breaks free from or is
> independent of the ordinary determinism of the physical laws).
> >
> > - (something else)?
> >
> > Jason
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>
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