[ExI] Von Neumann Probes

[Jason Resch]

On Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 7:51 AM John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2026 at 9:13 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> *>> You can't go faster than the speed of light, so if you want your
>>> microchip to process a bit of information faster then you're going to need
>>> to make the parts of the chip closer together. And you're going to need to
>>> make the wavelength of the light that you use for communication between the
>>> parts of the chip smaller. And the smaller the wavelength that light is the
>>> more energy it has. And E=MC^2. If you keep trying to make the chip go
>>> faster then eventually the distance becomes so small and the energy becomes
>>> so large that a Black Hole forms. *
>>>
>>
>> *> A black hole represents the fastest *serial* computer for a given
>> number of bits. But note that operations per second of non-serial (parallel
>> operations) is independent of the computer's density. You can have 10^51
>> ops/s whether that 1 kg of computer is 1 cubic meter, or a microscopic
>> black hole.*
>>
>
> *In a parallel computer there can be an unlimited number of NAND and
> NOR gates that can perform their operations simultaneously, but you don't
> have a parallel computer, or a computer of any sort, unless the output of
> those NAND and NOR gates can communicate with each other. So if you want
> your machine to run faster then you're going to have to place those gates
> closer together, and you're going to need to decrease the wavelength of
> light that you use for communication,  and the shorter the wavelength the
> more energy it has, so if you keep going eventually you're going to produce
> a Black Hole.*
>

Think of it like a bunch of independent data centers spread across the
globe that don't need to communicate with one another.

Diffuse computronium can be as thin as air, but like air it can still have
local areas of higher density. And diffuse or sense, Bremmermann's limit
can still be approached.

Note the gravitational constant does not appear in the definition of the
limit, only Planck's constant and the speed of light. This means gravity
(and black holes) have nothing to do with this limit.

https://www.google.com/search?q=1+kg+*+c%5E2+%2F+h

The only reason black holes are interesting in terms of computation is
because they represent the smallest volume for a given amount of data
storage, and being the smallest, have the least latency to access any bit
in the computer. But as I said, this is a reflection of Bekenstein's bound,
not Bremmermann's limit.

Jason


> *John K Clark*
>
>
>
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>>>
>>>
>>>>> *>> If you try to go beyond Bremermann's Limit the energy/mass density
>>>>>>> would become so high that your computer would collapse into a Black Hole,
>>>>>>> and then information could go in but it couldn't get out so the machine
>>>>>>> wouldn't be of much use. *
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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