[ExI] Are Dyson swarms a good idea?

Tue Jan 27 13:30:32 UTC 2026

On Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 8:07 AM John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2026 at 7:43 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>
>>> *>> computational capacity takes energy and I don't think you can ever
>>>>> have too much of that. And I do not believe I am the only mind in the
>>>>> observable universe that holds that opinion. If intelligent life is common
>>>>> then somebody somewhere is going to decide to make a certain machine that
>>>>> has a mass of only 10^-12 grams. And it would only take one guy. So why
>>>>> don't we see any evidence of that? The answer is obvious. *
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> *> Could it be that these superintelligences:*
>>>> *Converge on a common agreement of how much to interfere with the rest
>>>> of the galaxy?*
>>>>
>>>
>>> *No, it could NOT be that EXACTLY 100% of the trillion quadrillion minds
>>> in the observable universe are in agreement that a self replicating machine
>>> that has a mass of only 10^-12 grams and is capable of making Dyson Spheres
>>> should not be made because I know for a fact there is at least one mind
>>> that disagrees.*
>>>
>>
>>
>> *> Note: I was talking about super intelligent post-singular minds.
>> (Which would have been clear had you not erased that part of my message
>> from your reply). As intelligence increases the probability of being
>> correct on any given question increases. This causes a natural convergence.*
>>
>
> *I believe that even for a superintelligence there would be no disputing
> matters of taste. And you are the one that claims to know how post
> Singularity Jupiter Brains would behave, you claim they would all behave
> just like you would, every single one of them. B**ut I do not claim to
> know that they would all behave in one certain way, and I certainly don't
> claim **they would all behave just as I would, but if just one of them
> did then the galaxy would look engineered. But it doesn't. Without tying
> myself into logical knots I can only think of one explanation for that *
>

I made no claims they would agree with me or agree with you. I only suggest
there are reasons we can expect them to converge on whatever the right
answer is, and hence, all agree with one another.

Then as to the outliers who disagree, or manage to shoot off a self
replicating probe before they reach a post singular stage, the majority of
elder civilizations could stop the probe before it causes harm. (Assuming
there is broad agreement that such wreckless interference is harmful.)

We see the aliens from the movie independence day as evil for trying to
wipe out life on Earth. Is it not an equivalent evil to build a Dyson swarm
around an alien star and preclude any chance of life from emerging on any
planet in that system?

I don't know what a post singular mind would consider right or wrong on
that matter. I only know the answer is not as obvious as you make it out to
be.

Predicating the galaxy will certainly be filled with Dyson swarms maybe as
wrong as predictions that, whales would be hunted to extinction (not seeing
the refining of petroleum), NY would be overrun with horse manure (not
seeing the invention of cars).

We don't know what inventions lie ahead that can completely upend our
assumptions, which is why post singular predictions are so difficult. This
difficulty is why the future isn't obvious.

Jason

> *John K Clark *
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>>
>> How many super intelligent post singular minds do you know that disagree?
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> *> Could one or more elder post-singular intelligences already be
>>>> present in every star system and enforce some kind of galactic law?*
>>>
>>>
>>> *I don't know what you mean by "galactic law", but whatever it is I know
>>> it won't be capable of overruling the laws of physics. *
>>>
>>
>> See: https://alwaysasking.com/are-we-alone/#Earth_is_Protected
>>
>>
>>>
>>> *> Could such superintelligences find ways of computing with near zero
>>>> energy loss, or use black holes as heat sinks, or find a loophole for free
>>>> energy,*
>>>>
>>>
>>> *I like what Arthur Eddington said about the most important natural law
>>> of all, the Second Law Of Thermodynamics:*
>>>
>>> *“The law that entropy always increases holds, I think, the supreme
>>> position among the laws of Nature. If someone points out to you that your
>>> pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equations -
>>> then so much the worse for Maxwell's equations. If it is found to be
>>> contradicted by observation - well, these experimentalists do bungle things
>>> sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the Second Law of
>>> Thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it to collapse
>>> in deepest humiliation.”*
>>>
>>
>> You ignored all the other possibilities I mentioned. Moreover you deleted
>> them to hide them from your reply.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>>> *  John K Clark*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I don't find any of Claude's excuses to explain the embarrassing
>>>>>>> fact that astronomers have never seen anything like a Dyson sphere to be
>>>>>>> persuasive. If intelligent life is common in the observable universe I
>>>>>>> simply don't believe that not one of the trillion quadrillion minds in that
>>>>>>> universe thought it would be a good idea to make a 10^-12 gram self
>>>>>>> duplicating machine that is capable of making a Dyson Sphere, lots of them.
>>>>>>> Hell, I am a mind in the observable universe and if I had the ability to
>>>>>>> make such a machine I certainly would, and I don't think I'm unique.  *
>>>>>>> *<snip>*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * John K Clark*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> -
>>>>>>
>>>>> __
>>>>
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>>
>
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