[ExI] Are Dyson swarms a good idea?

[John Clark]

On Tue, Jan 27, 2026 at 11:54 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

*>> I believe that even for a superintelligence there would be no disputing
>>>> matters of taste. And you are the one that claims to know how post
>>>> Singularity Jupiter Brains would behave, you claim they would all behave
>>>> just like you would, every single one of them. B**ut I do not claim to
>>>> know that they would all behave in one certain way, and I certainly don't
>>>> claim **they would all behave just as I would, but if just one of them
>>>> did then the galaxy would look engineered. But it doesn't. Without tying
>>>> myself into logical knots I can only think of one explanation for that *
>>>
>>>
>>> *> I made no claims they would agree with me or agree with you. I only
>>> suggest there are reasons we can expect them to converge on whatever the
>>> right answer is, and hence, all agree with one another.*
>>
>>
>> *There is no "right answer" to the question "Do you want to build a Dyson
>> sphere?", there are only opinions, and as I said there is no disputing
>> matters of taste.  *
>>
>
> *> if Dyson swarms were art pieces I would be inclined to agree that the
> choice to build one is a matter of taste, but Dyson swarms are generally
> assumed to serve some utilitarian purpose *
>


*U**tilitarian? Something is utilitarian if it helps you get what you want,
but what you want is a matter of taste, and there's no disputing matters of
taste.  *

*P**urpose? Intelligent beings are in the purpose conferring business, not
dead matter. The planet Jupiter can't give you purpose, but you can give
the planet Jupiter a purpose, for example it might come in handy if you
wish to make a Dyson sphere/swarm. *

*> As I've already shown, you can get a higher return on computations using
> a black hole heatsink.*
>

*And as I've already shown, the higher return is RIDICULOUSLY tiny.  *

*> You wouldn't consider the choice between hunting whales for lamp oil vs.
> building a thorium reactor a matter of taste, would you?*
>

*I certainly would! Science can tell you how to get what you want but it
can't tell you what you should want. For me building a thorium reactor
would be more fun than killing a whale, but others may feel differently. *


*Fun fact, there is actually a connection between whales and thorium. In
the late 19th century something called a "thorium mantle" was invented, it
was a mesh bag made of thorium nitrate that made a brilliant white light
when heated to  incandescence by a flame in a lamp that used whale oil. It
made the lamps far more efficient, less oil was needed to be burned to
produce the same amount of light and so fewer whales needed to be killed.
At the time it was just about the only use that anybody had ever found for
thorium.  *

> *>>> We see the aliens from the movie independence day as evil for trying
>>> to wipe out life on Earth. *
>>
>>
>> *>> A real stinker of a movie, I wish you'd picked a better example.  *
>>
>
> *> What example would you have used?*
>

* Colossus: The Forbin Project
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoB1l3A-GF0>  it's an old movie, it was
made in 1970, but in my opinion it is the most underrated movie of all
time. You can watch it on YouTube. *

*The movie Ex Machina from 2014 is also excellent, and so is the series
Pantheon which is on Netflix. Devs is one of my favorite science-fiction
series, although it's not primarily about AI.*


* John K Clark*
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