[ExI] Von Neumann Probes

[John Clark]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2026 at 5:18 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2026, 4:55 PM John Clark via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2026 at 4:23 PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> *> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Rather than crush Jupiter into a black hole, consider lifting it out of
>>> the gravity well.  Drexler worked this out a long time ago and had to
>>> invent a new measure of energy to make it (sort of) comprehensible. It
>>> would take the total output of the sun for 3 centuries to pull Jupiter
>>> apart.*
>>>
>>
>> *>> The amount of energy needed to tear Jupiter apart would be trivially
>> tiny compared with the gargantuan amount of energy that would be required
>> to crush it into a 20 foot wide Black Hole.  *
>>
>
> *> Just drop a small black hole into it, gravity will do the rest. It's an
> exothermic process, you don't need to add energy for it to fall into
> itself.*
>

*Where do you get the small black hole? A black hole with a mass of the
moon would be even denser than a black hole with a mass of Jupiter, so it
would take even more energy to make one of those.   *


*John K Clark*







>
> Jason
>
>
>
>>
>> *John K Clark*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2026 at 12:58 PM John Clark via extropy-chat
>>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2026 at 9:43 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>>> >>> Answer my question from my previous email: how many
>>> non-reversible computations can be performed for two computers at those two
>>> temperatures,
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >> That depends on the mass of the computers in question. Regardless
>>> of what temperature the computers are at, the maximum number of bits of
>>> information one kilogram of mass can process per second is 1.36*1^50 bits .
>>> If all else was equal a computer with a black hole heat sink would be able
>>> to process  0.0064699999983% more information than a computer that used
>>> empty space as a heat sink. Does that improvement seem worth crushing
>>> Jupiter into a 20 foot wide Black Hole to you?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > I see your error.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > MY ERROR?!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> > You are confusing wasted energy for useful energy.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > My confusion?!  The total amount of energy produced has nothing to do
>>> with the temperature of the cold heat sink, it does have an effect on the
>>> theoretical limit of how much of the total energy can be turned into work.
>>> AND the amount is almost exactly the same for both, 0.99353 % can be if
>>> empty space is used as a cold heat sink, and 0.9999999999983%  can be if an
>>> unspecified method is used to crush Jupiter into a 20 foot wide black hole
>>> and that is your cold a heat sink.
>>> >
>>> > I think the gargantuan amount of energy required to crush Jupiter into
>>> such a dense state, FAR greater than the amount of energy the sun will
>>> produce in its entire lifetime, could more productively be used in other
>>> ways.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> > See my email in the other thread which shows how this difference
>>> yields a 3.8 billion fold increase in the number of computations that can
>>> be performed. (Because it is wasted energy that has been reduced, not the
>>> amount of useful energy that has been increased).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > If I had written that email I'd be embarrassed by it and not be urging
>>> others to read it again.
>>> >
>>> > John K Clark
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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